Protesters in New York City on Saturday October 1. (Image by Lindsay Beyerstein, all rights reserved.)
Sady Doyle, at InTheseTimes, describes her feelings about OWS, especially after organizing a SlutWalk in NYC on October 1st:
“I had been staying away from Occupy Wall Street. I wasn’t sure why; I, like every other progressive in the city, had been exhorted to attend, reminded that it was both my right and my duty. As a recession casualty, and a woman from a working-class family, I often thought that my lack of money controlled my life, and brought violence and suffering into it, just as much as my gender had. But the exhortations made me resentful, for reasons I couldn’t name. It was something to do with the big, sexy, non-specific targets; something to do with the language of duty; something to do with the fact that men who had routinely given me gentle or not-so-gentle crap for my own activism were now Tweeting constantly about the power of the people and the obligation of the masses to protest.
It wasn’t until I marched in SlutWalk that I finally got it. It was simply this: No matter how hyped SlutWalk had been, no matter how long the marches had been going on or how global their reach was, no one ever imagined we could book Radiohead. We had all known that wasn’t our place; it wasn’t a degree of recognition we felt entitled to, even in our fantasies. Even on the day we marched, we weren’t the biggest show in town. We had accepted that. We didn’t tell the Wall Streeters it was their duty to join forces with us; we didn’t express resentment that more of them hadn’t come uptown. We were just feminists, after all. We might well be the next wave, but to the progressive community we looked a lot like the feminist waves before us: A sort of women’s auxiliary to the real movement. Maybe admirable, mostly irrelevant.”
Word. Just read via Catarina at Crawdad’s that the Coast Guard is officially advising its personnel to avoid Occupy Boston (they have a facility on the waterfront quite close by) while in uniform after a woman Coast Guarder was verbally and physically assaulted.
Riverdaughter is smitten with OWS. Miq, not so much. I’m not smitten either, but not for the same reasons. The objections at Crawdad appear to be mostly specific and rational. Mine are more amorphous. I find I don’t really give a crap. Most of the women I know are at fricken work right now. At not very good paying jobs and at completely UNPAID jobs taking care of their families. Often both. Often both at the same time. Which is not, in itself, a persuasive argument against OWS. The “working grownups” of the world rely on those unwashed, unemployed, irresponsible (even pot-smoking, Heavens!) young people and college students to go sit out in the cold with signs or march up and down streets chanting slogans against the Powers That Be, so WE DON’T HAVE TO. I get that; I really do. I don’t expect them to be clean cut or articulate or quiet or rational. I don’t expect them to line up at City Hall for a permit or have persuasive Talking Points ready for TV interviews. They’re a loud messy mess. God bless ‘em, even.
But here’s the thing. We can only safely rely on the cute dirty idealistic youngsters if they actually are marching/sitting-in/protesting on OUR BEHALF; only if the attainment of their goals would mean a better situation for us. I don’t believe for one second that the dudes on Wall Street (of both types, the suits and the unsuitable) are there for me. The attainment of their goals (both the greedy capitalists and the greedy hippie dudes) would probably lead to more poverty, more violence, and more oppression of women (Down with authority! The rules don’t apply to us! By any means necessary!). It’s kind of interesting that both groups of boys, the ones inside the glass buildings and the ones outside throwing stones, object to being told what to do by regulatory authorities. Coincidence?
By the way, the girls got a permit for their friendly, inclusive, utterly peaceful march on October 1st. The boys? They”re not using military terms like OCCUPY by accident. They moved in like tanks, refused to budge, asked for and expected handouts, and then started shitting (literally) all over the place. Sounds really fucking familiar to me.
So, thank you to the women who marched on October 1st in NYC. You were there for me because I couldn’t be. And only a handful of men marched with you? Most of them gay men who were there for Queer Rights? Ok then. Count me out of the 99%. And wake me up when the boys stop playing with themselves.
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murphy 10.14.11 at 10:16 am
Just donated $50 to SlutWalkNYC.
http://slutwalknyc.com/Donate
No cupcakes for the Boys from me.
But here’s one for YOU:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
murphy 10.14.11 at 10:25 am
Oh great. Matt “shithead” Taibbi has advice for OWS.
http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/10/matt-taibbis-advice-ows
This is the same Matt who was salivating on network television about apotential Michelle Bachmann porn movie, the more violent the better, and expressing his devotion to the movie “Nailin Palin”
This would be the same Sarah Palin’s whose national agenda has “Ending CRONY CAPITALISM” as its foundation.
Incoherent, violent, ugly, stupid asshole.
murphy 10.14.11 at 11:22 am
This picture really sums up why I dont believe OWS is out for my best interest.
http://crayfisher.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/52259491-f313-43e4-983a-44ee39c0a66f.jpg
If I saw these dudes marching towards me I’d run in the opposite direction.
Zee 10.14.11 at 11:28 am
Very important points, Murphy. I have no doubt the boys will NOT be there at the next women’s march, because they have no role models of men supporting women’s rights as human rights. There are individual men who do so, but their work is not trumpeted and amplified. (My favorite is Gavin Newsom, now lt. gov. of CA, who as mayor of SF made it a personal crusade to shut down sex trafficking….Newsom is the one Obozo refused to be photographed with because Newsom supported gay marriage.)
But Slut Walk is not considered inclusive in some circles. I spent quite a bit of time gently defending them amongst AA feminists who were extremely triggered by the claiming of the demeaning word “slut” and felt very excluded from their effort. These were women who participated in old “Take Back the Night” marches.
My take is that both efforts are flawed, and I don’t hold with the kids’ methods, but that I support both because they are standing up and acting.
I recognize if I were young, I would probably be out front and center in those slut walks, in the skimpiest possible outfit. But what the young women don’t understand is that if you consume crap like those MTV reality shows and watch porn with the guys THOSE are the activities that are contributing to objectifying women. We need to redefine what constitutes “liberating” behavior vs demeaning. It’s not going to be easy “shaming” behavior that has become normal.
yttik 10.14.11 at 11:36 am
Yes, it’s a huge red flag that the OWS protests are made up of mostly white males. In Seattle it looks to be about 75%. I had a good talk with some women about why they were not participating and the answers ranged from “I haven’t got time, I work and go to school” to feeling like the movement “has no integrity because they aren’t protesting in Bellevue or in front of Microsoft where the rich people are, they’re creating an inconvenience for working class students who work and live and go to school here.” I guess buses have been diverted, streets have been closed, and people’s hours have been reduced at work because businesses in the area are hurting.
A couple of women mentioned that there are anarchists trying to join and potential clashes with the cops and they don’t feel safe. Another women mentioned the request for condoms that went out. So, male dominated protests, unsafe streets, threats of violence, and potential sexual exploitation. What’s not there to love?
PumaRhythm 10.14.11 at 11:45 am
Smaaaaaaack!!!!!!!!!!
Murphy hits another one Out Of The Park!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Murphy…the photo of the young women marching up top..brought tears to my eyes. I am sooooo proud of them…thank you for telling their story.
SlutWalk …i freakin Love it!!
also..
the more I paid attention to the ‘balls on the ground’ (OWS protesters)
the more they reminded me of the male progressives that spewed their vial shit all over the web everyday about Hillary and later Palin. f*ck them!!
if it smells like BO..it usually is! (pun intended)
it just feels like a warm up orgy 4 the boyz…2012 Hope & Change ya know!
“And wake me up when the boys stop playing with themselves.”
LOL Ditto.
oh and f*ck Shithead Taibbi too!!
bbl
murphy 10.14.11 at 11:48 am
Zee, yep, I share your view of SlutWalk. Read a really good discussion of the pros/cons at Twisty’s a while back. I still support the efforts of young feminist women figuring out how to fucking deal in the friggin culture they find themselves in a HELL of a lot more than I do the creeps in the pic I linked to. That the young women invariably do their activism with peacefulness, inclusiveness, and usually even big smiles, especially given that the women are protesting things like RAPE MURDER TORTURE FORCED PREGNANCY and SEXUAL SLAVERY that in many cases they have experienced PERSONALLY rather than some amorphous blob of theory like “capitalism” or “greed” tells me most of what I need to know.
Ya know, if women had balls we’d probably have burned the boys alive in their fucking beds long ago. And I mean that literally.
Zee 10.14.11 at 11:48 am
I’ve been to the Boston camp several times. The feeling there is quite different, and there are many women there, including in spokesperson roles. A lot of women got arrested this week, and the men who got arrested specifically told some of the women’s stories because the women were detained longer. The women were warned ahead of time by those monitoring the police radio because they overheard the women would not be detained in Boston but carried outside the city for logistical reasons.
I understand some stupid pigs spit at a female Coast Guard officer, and that is appalling. The only time I encountered anything like that was when I overheard one guy say to another, “I can’t understand how anyone couldn’t be a Libertarian” — and I gave him a clear example of why not, because Ron Paul wants to give personhood to fetuses, which would make women incubators instead of humans in charge of their own body. They demanded to know my “source” and I told them to do their own research and they told me to “move on” which I did because I wasn’t there to argue with them anyway.
This is inevitable…and there are LaRouchies and all sorts of unsavory types trying to horn in.
But the “feel” of the Boston camp is quite inclusive, and I’ve been there on many occasions, both day and night. Except for when the mayor sent the riot troops in, the Boston cops have had a good relationship with the camp, and it has felt peaceful and safe. They have had things stolen, tho, so it’s not entirely safe! But for the most part the guys are not coming off as swaggering or militant, and there are women old and young in regular attendance and occupying various roles.
New York is a bit much for me…I’m curious how DC is going, I haven’t read up. Denver just got shut down. LA looks like a vacation, to me!
Occupy Boston has been having guest speakers in on various issues (tar sands pipeline, for instance) and I think having this discussion brought to them would be an excellent move, with the idea of getting the guys to commit to supporting the next march for women, and standing up to the sex trade, etc.
theamericanway 10.14.11 at 11:53 am
First for Headclunker, 44 is ready.
Second, I’ve not been feeling very good about OWS either. A few days would not have been so bad, but they are hurting the quality of life of the many ordinary people. What about their rights?
If they don’t know where they’re going, how do they know when they’ve arrived? If those feeding them quit doing so, would they leave? Murphy, I really appreciate the insight this post brings to the subject.
Zee 10.14.11 at 11:57 am
I know I posted this before, but a reminder….Monday this will be shown on TV:
Sin by Silence, a documentary about abused women convicted of murdering their abusers. It’s about how they formed a group and made a difference. the documentary was 10 years in the making. Here’s the trailer:
http://www.imdb.com/video/wab/vi797114905/
freddiebrown 10.14.11 at 12:06 pm
Is there anyone in Kennebunkport, Maine that wants to work in a nice retail store ? One of our BEST customers was telling us no one wants to work. She has to rent a house and get cars just to bring up workers from her Florida store to work there. Even for $15 an hour – doing nothing, no one wants to work in retail.
Her Florida store is jammed with customers and is very very successful.
If there is any Puma out there, needing a job, I can hook you up with an interview. She is very very nice.
Zee 10.14.11 at 12:12 pm
Thanks for the links, murphy…I’m not a regular reader on the Confluence, heh!
I think Riverdaughter is overly optimistic about where OWS is headed, but on this point I can completely concur:
“..the naysayers who have never been to an occupation site (hello myiq!) seem to think that the occupiers are or can be co-opted to become another Obama for America organization. My sense, having actually, you know, *been* there, is that that’s not true.”
The leaders of OB seem very adamant about repeating that they are not aligning with any party, and having been to the camp, I’ve not seen any Obamalove. In fact, the opposite. One sign singling him out as “not my president” and several people talking about not voting at all as a statement, and others discussing various alternatives to voting big party.
btw, Riverdaughter had a link to a great Vanity Fair article on Elizabeth Warren, the Woman who Knew Too Much:
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/7839-elizabeth-warren-the-woman-who-knew-too-much
freddiebrown 10.14.11 at 12:22 pm
Murphy – I sooooo appreciate and can relate to your post above. Sometimes it is hard for me to articulate what so many people in your post have articulated. My gut feeling tells me that OWS is not something I can embrace whole heartedly. Sure “crony capitalism” is something I see, understand and don’t want in corporate America but the OWS message and modus operandi is unsettling to me.
murphy 10.14.11 at 12:25 pm
A trust fund baby protester and an ethnic, ambitious Wall Street worker have a dialogue. Dudes talking to dudes about dude stuff.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/14/opposite-sides-of-the-protest-come-together-briefly/#postComment
Zee 10.14.11 at 12:36 pm
freddiebrown….if the store is jammed with customers, I doubt they’re “doing nothing!”
But it is interesting and so weird. I’ve never worked in retail, so have no clue what would be distasteful about it, but when I went to a Macy’s sale to buy my son a bed I had to walk through their fur coat department. While we were booking the bed delivery I asked my clerk what did all those working in the fur dept. do during the summer? She said they were kept busy with inventory and also cleaning and storing furs for customers. I said that sounded nice, and she gave me a look. You know I could hardly drag a smile out of her, I don’t get it. If I hadn’t been pressed for time and the sale so good, I wouldn’t have bought from a store with such dour floor staff.
I’ve applied to a couple of retail jobs (a lighting store near me I’d die to work in…I have a thing about lighting!) and never even got a reply, because I don’t have specific retail experience, even tho I’ve done a ton of promotional work in retail outlets. Most of those I’ve worked in had fairly happy workers with a “family” feel to them.
Zee 10.14.11 at 12:50 pm
Eliza Heath, in the forefront of the Occupy Boston movement, interviewed following her arrest. A very capable and involved spokeswoman. If the movement grows, let Boston be a model for more women at the front and as a voice for this uprising!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbDwIDtnEqA
Zee 10.14.11 at 1:02 pm
Here’s a group I learned of today, working to stop the early sexualization of our girls:
http://www.nenetwork.org/publications/What_Are_We_Doing_to_Girls.pdf
We definitely need a global revolution of our own, for sure! But it’s going to have to engage men. And if that entails burning a few in their beds to get the point across ….
Zee 10.14.11 at 1:26 pm
Sheesh! I wish I would stop getting so many interesting links to women’s issues today!!!! One more…with a rebuttal that shows how difficult it is to take a strong yet nonjudgmental stand!
clip, review
=================
Pan Am and The Playboy Club—both dreadful, by the way, even without the sexism—seem to long for the days when women could be freely and openly objectified. …Why care about either of these programs? In addition to romanticizing the sexism of yore, they contribute to the ongoing amnesia about the discrimination that prompted the women’s movement in the first place…When the media gloss over, or deliberately misremember, women’s history and what it was like before the massive changes of the 1970s and beyond, they nurture the notion that feminism is unnecessary.
http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/12088/if_only_sexism_could_be_cancelled
Susan J. Douglas is a professor of communications at the University of Michigan and an In These Times columnist. Her latest book is Enlightened Sexism: The Seductive Message That Feminism’s Work is Done (2010).
And a poster’s rebuttal:
I deeply resent the judgmental attitudes represented in this article. I LIKE this show and hope it stays on the air for a long time. …If you did your homework, you’d realize it was the stewardesses who were on the front lines in the labor movement fighting the rules that discriminated against them and other women re: age, weight, marital status. It was people like retired flight attendant Iris Peterson (who worked for United from 1946 to 2007) who took the cases to court and WON, and not the uptight radical feminists who actually mocked and belittled them at the women’s rallies in the 70s! I would suggest you read the book “Femininity in Flight: A History of Flight Attendants” by Kathleen Barry and you’ll see that a number of stewardesses were feminists such as former NOW President Patricia Ireland.
Delle 10.14.11 at 1:46 pm
I don’t want to interrupt this very important discussion – I really don’t – but this is important too. And I am just fuming!
Obama is sending 100 troops to Uganda to fight off some war lord that none of us ever heard of:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/obama-sends-100-us-troops-to-uganda-to-combat-lords-resistance-army/
That’s just the beginning, of course. More troops will follow.
So, without any congressional authority Dear Barry is getting us into another war.
What’s this now 5? 6? I’ve lost count!
Delle 10.14.11 at 1:52 pm
Hey, I have an idea.
Why don’t all the people taking part in the occupy protests all over the country, stop what they are doing and head to Washington. There they can gather in front of the White House and demand that this man step down.
We don’t want an emperor! We want a president again!
freddiebrown 10.14.11 at 2:16 pm
Zee – further to my post, their Florida store is always jamming. Their Maine store is relatively new so it doesn’t jam
She says the people in Kennybunk want to work when they want and take off when they want so she cannot jump in to man it because she is in Florida most times.
I know this lady – very classy but no nonsense. She orders literally thousands of dollars per order and is extremely low maintenance. We have had her credit card for years and we just ship, ship ship no questions asked.
freddiebrown 10.14.11 at 2:41 pm
Delle – I would have more respect for the OWS if they protested in front of the White House. Each time I hear of Obama in bed with GE or GM I want to puke..but hey it is contribution time for his election coffers. On the one hand he supports the OWS, on the other hand he cozies up to these big corporations. Another war in Uganda, another threat to Iran – there are no shortage of places to throw our citizens money around where it doesn’t count. Pardon me, I have to go work so that I can have money to pay for next years products because I just got done paying uncle Sam on September 15. Do you guys know that as a small business, Unc.Sam doesn’t care if you have money next year to carry on your business. You just pay up this year and if you don’t have money to fund the business, you just shut your door.
freddiebrown 10.14.11 at 3:22 pm
Zee if you love lighting, why don’t you try your hand at it.
I bought a handmade lamp made of junk parts from junklabs.com for $560/-
It arrived broken and bent but it sounds like something you could do. I like supporting artists etc. Just a thought. As Steve Jobs says: why join the navy when you can be a pirate… I love that saying.
prplvette85 10.14.11 at 4:02 pm
Murphy thank you again!! You have said everything I have been trying to get across on fb! I work to dam hard everyday on commission trying to make a living, beat the boyz every month. It is very tough in this economy. I don’t trust OWS, I think and this is my opinion only, but I believe with the Unions getting involved, teachers, steelworkers..this stinks of obama shit. remember when he held the free beer concerts? I was really convinced when I saw botox, on your knees Pelosi on the news bithcing about how no on said anything about the tea party spitting on Congress but we are complaining about the OWS protests. I knew right then, this is another oblowme ploy to gather the young, weak minded and easily led voters to yet again drink his koolaid.
Now he sent 100 troops to Africa? Your so damned worried about Africa now? Fucking go back there and fight yourself I will buy your dam plane ticket. I am so sick of him I just don’t know what to do! Yet another ploy to let the blacks know he is black? pffffttt and he needs their votes…that is all this is. FUCK OBAMA!
ipotter 10.14.11 at 4:10 pm
Fake signatures may mean Obama didn’t actually qualify in Indiana
Would ’08 May ballot have been different?
October 13, 2011|By ERIN BLASKO | Tribune Staff Writer
SOUTH BEND – Minus suspected fakes, then Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama likely fell short of tahe number of signatures needed to appear on the 2008 Indiana primary ballot, and it’s possible his opponent, Hillary Clinton, did as well, according to information obtained by The Tribune as part of an investigation into suspected ballot petition fraud.
Trent Deckard, Democratic co-director of the state Election Division, in an e-mail Thursday told The Tribune Obama’s 2008 petition for primary ballot placement in the state contained just 534 certified signatures in the 2nd Congressional District. Clinton’s petition contained 704 certified signatures, he said.
Presidential candidates must collect at least 500 signatures in each of the state’s nine congressional districts to appear on the statewide primary ballot in Indiana.
As reported Sunday, The Tribune, in conjunction with Howey Politics Indiana, has uncovered scores of fake signatures on both the Obama and Clinton petitions in the 2nd Congressional District and specifically St. Joseph County.
http://us.mg3.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=3s1tap26ab9bd
———————
Took them long enough to check into this!
ipotter 10.14.11 at 4:12 pm
oops… here is the link to Obama Fake signature article.
http://articles.southbendtribune.com/2011-10-13/news/30278211_1_clinton-petition-fake-signatures-petition-pages
Sorry.
ipotter 10.14.11 at 4:15 pm
Oh forgot to mention that Clinton would have had enough signatures even though there were some fake ones included. But they are reporting on NPR radio that Obama would not have had enough signatures to be on the ballot.
prplvette85 10.14.11 at 4:27 pm
opps…can you take out my duplicate. I don’t know what I did. I was so angry I must have been typing too fast. I am still at work. sorry and thank you
ipotter 10.14.11 at 4:29 pm
Here is another article. I’ll stop spamming the board now.
http://www.wibc.com/news/Story.aspx?ID=1555625
Disputed Signatures Enough to Force Obama Off 2008 Ballot
Both state party chairmen call for probe of possible fraud, forgery
By Eric Berman (eric@wibc.com)
10/14/2011
Indiana Republican Chairman Eric Holcomb (WIBC.com photo: Eric Berman)
Indiana Election Division figures indicate questionable petition signatures made the difference in getting Barack Obama on the Indiana primary ballot in 2008.
Presidential candidates need 500 signatures from each of the nine congressional districts. Obama submitted 534 signatures in the Second District, but a handwriting expert hired by the Howey Political Report and the South Bend Tribune has suggested dozens of Obama signatures in Saint Joe County were forged, enough to drop him below the threshold.
Obama narrowly lost the primary to then-Senator Hillary Clinton, picking up 34 Indiana delegates. Even without those delegates, he would have had enough to win the nomination.
But state Republican chairman Eric Holcomb contends Obama wouldn’t have won Indiana if he hadn’t poured time and money into the primary battle. And he says it’s possible Obama’s coattails could have affected races further down the ballot.
Republicans swept state offices in 2008, but Democrats gained one Indiana House seat for a 52-48 majority. Democrats won three seats by fewer than 500 votes each
Holcomb says he’s mailed a promised four-page letter to federal prosecutors in northern Indiana, calling for an investigation. He says the evidence suggests possible felony charges of election fraud or forgery.
In a written statement, state Democratic chairman Dan Parker echoes the call for an investigation, calling the apparent forgeries an “isolated incident” and saying the person responsible should be held accountable.
The reports by Howey and the Tribune indicate suspicious signatures on Clinton’s petitions as well, but Holcomb’s letter notes that only in passing. Holcomb says the Obama signatures are more problematic because Clinton had more margin for error, turning in 704 signatures in the district.
It’s unclear whether enough signatures are in question to have knocked both candidates off the ballot.
Obama campaign officials say they could have easily made up any gap in signatures if the county election board had told them they were short.
In 2008, a Democratic blogger filed a challenge to eventual Republican nominee John McCain’s signatures, contending he was a handful short in the Fourth District. Republicans said their count showed McCain with enough, and the election commission unanimously ruled in their favor.
freddiebrown 10.14.11 at 4:57 pm
I am in Atlanta doing a trade show and it is a bit sad. Typically we don’t do this show because it is smaller and if the orders are not fast and furious, I am not interested. So the capitalistic pig in me, said what the hell, when the show called us to say that there is a very good booth location for us. So the point is, there are so many store buyers that come in oohing and aaahiing about our products , saying how adorable and how cute. But they don’t buy because they don’t have the money or they have to think really hard about spending it. That is the condition of the small business, mostly boutiques owned by women. That is the sad part. So I have lots of time to be writing on this blog.
And it makes me mad that the original OWS is now co-opted by the likes of Pelosi, unions, Obama that use every opportunity to align with the “oppressed masses” etc…I smell a rat and I don’t like it. Talking to a few people from different states today, many are worried that Obama may win again. Not everyone of the 99% are happy about the OWS – as for me, I prefer the OWS not speak for me. Some white haired lady from Atlanta that I just met said that she was skeptical about the Tea Party earlier but in comparison to the OWS, the Tea Party sound more and more palatable. Just quoting…
Zee 10.14.11 at 7:55 pm
Hey, freddiebrown! It is so sad that no one is buying…my friend who owns a store had to fire everyone and run it herself to try to hang on. And she says all the vendors just give her product and say, pay us later…just out of desperation!
But PLEASE stop saying there is no one in front of the White House. They’ve been Occupying DC. And Pelosi hasn’t co-opted any of them, that’s nonsense!
Unions, yes, have been joining up….pilots, nurses, teachers, electricians. But indivdually, mostly for the marches. This movement is not “backed” by anyone. Interesting enough, Tel Aviv really “invented” this. A woman started a tent city last July, to protest the housing crisis, and it grew and grew, with Israelis and Arabs all participating, and 8 weeks later it culminated in a march in Tel Aviv, half a million strong.
But does OWS acknowledge this? Nope. None of them do. They always cite the “Arab Spring” because that is all they know, thanks to our media!!
Zee 10.14.11 at 8:03 pm
freddiebrown, by “individually” above, I meant, individually as a union, eg, pilots in NYC, teachers in Boston, etc. Not single people individually!
oh, also…regarding the lighting, yes! Haha…I had that idea and tried my hand at it, and it was pitiful. I was so excited, thinking I could build unique lamps…oh well! Now it’s reclaimed, restyled furniture….I got a book and everything. I figure if it’s already built and all I have to do is repaint, change the hardware and screw on some unique features, I could handle that.
Zee 10.14.11 at 8:09 pm
ipotter….that is so depressing. And the ironic thing is, that is how Obama knocked Alice Palmer out of her own seat in Illinois. I wonder how many states we could’ve gotten Zero kicked out of had we simply done his own dirty trick on him? I mean, it’s inevitable….you’re hiring workers who cut corners when collecting signatures, no matter what campaign you’re talking about. That is why good campaign managers get many more than is required.
@Delle….the Friday news dump includes….a new warfront…!? What is going on??
turndownobama 10.14.11 at 8:17 pm
Good capsule coverage of several Occupy cities here, scroll down:
stcroixsource.com/aggregator/sources/4
Here’s a map showing occupation sites worldwide:
pics.livejournal.com/nihilistic_kid/pic/000p02be/
businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1
A good chart that shows what the 1% owns and what the 99% own.
http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4e9460fdeab8ea254d000025-547/thats-about-60-of-the-net-worth-of-the-country-held-by-the-top-5-left-chart.jpg
Imo this message is important, and OWS is getting the message out. I’m not going to gripe about their style.
Zee 10.14.11 at 8:18 pm
murphy…. I just watched the keynote speech for Slutwalk in DC. Well, it was very eloquent, made by a Massachusetts woman (rape survivor) my age! And there were at least a half dozen men behind her, attending and listening!
So, yet again, the media, of course, focuses on the young women in skimpy clothing, but the movement itself has deeper purpose.
freddiebrown 10.14.11 at 8:24 pm
ZEE – you have to build many lamps in order to get the hang of it and to crystalise ideas that get better and better as you go along. You cannot build one and dis-regard yourself. When we started, we had many duds that cost a lot of money. If not for that, we would have been on easy street a long time earlier. Tenacity, Drive and a Never-Give-Up-ness is needed.Good luck on the re-furnishing..it is fun as well. I hope you looked at the lamp website I gave..
We are holding on, not worried desperate yet..we are used to a robust business and just a little piffed at the slow down that is affecting everyone and those not affected are afraid to spend for fear that things might get worst. My accountant says we’re up 25% but I see a lot of business going out of business.
ipotter 10.14.11 at 8:39 pm
Zee (comment #34), it’s disgusting that they are just now looking into this. The region in Indiana were the signatures were forged is very close to the Chicago area… brings back memories of them busing “voters” around to all the different state caucuses, and all the other crap that went on that was never investigated.
From another article:
“The evidence currently suggests this was clearly not a clerical error or simple oversight,” Holcomb said. “Multiple crimes have been committed in a brazen violation of the public trust against the people of Indiana and our electoral process.”
As reported by The Tribune on Wednesday, the pages in question bear the stamped signature of Republican Linda Silcott. Silcott, who missed a number of days of work in early 2008 because of the death of her husband, was out at the time the documents passed through the office.
“With this latest development that the Republican board member was not even present to confirm the validity of these fraudulent signatures, yet another set of questions is raised,” Holcomb said.
“Were the forged forms purposely shepherded through the process knowing she was out of the office and approval would come easily? Where did the vetting process break down or was it meant to? … What knowledge did the Obama and Clinton campaign teams have of the effort to collect fraudulent signatures?”
http://www.wsbt.com/news/wsbt-20111013,0,5574461.story
Zee 10.14.11 at 8:43 pm
#19 Delle
This would be war #7 if you include both drone wars and boots on the ground…. or we could count them all as two: middle east and africa.
drone bases, drone attacks and secret prisons in Kenya and Somalia:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/204121.html
Zee 10.14.11 at 9:16 pm
#38…ipotter, I can’t engage with sites that purport there was an “effort” to collect fraudulent signatures. Come on. Get real. The only time it would be worth an “effort” to collect fraudulent signatures would be if there was no way to get a few hundred people to AGREE to put Obama on the ballot and that’s ridiculous. The campaign would want real signatures….the workers would be the only ones with motive to trick the campaign.
The entire POINT of adding fraudulent signatures is that it’s the opposite of effort….it’s EASIER than standing around all day asking people to stop and sign up. Cutting corners means you can turn in your pages of signatures and collect pay for your day’s work when in fact you sat in a coffee shop forging signatures instead. It’s normal schlubs not doing their job.
Do you think Hillary’s people made an “effort to get fraudulent signatures?” No, of course not. They just paid twice as much to get double the amount needed so they’d have enough valid signatures even if the lowly signature gatherer skimped on their job….which is inevitable, unfortunately. Happened to Hillary, happened to Alice Palmer, happens so regularly that Obama knew to spend the effort combing through the lists to get Alice kicked off the ballot so he could run unopposed….she was popular and it was her seat, so there would be no problem getting enough people to agree she should be on the ballot…individual lazy workers just defrauded her campaign.
And my gawd, that poor woman’s husband died! Instead of coming up with some unlikely conspiracy, how natural would it be that her coworkers signed for her simply to cut through some red tape and give her some stress-relief?
Anyone who cares about giving Obama a taste of his own medicine can’t get caught up in completely unlikely fabrications. The facts are that many candidates probably failed to gather enough valid signatures to be on the ballot, but it’s unusual to challenge and verify each one. The reason it was such a dirty trick for him to use on Alice is precisely because the shortfall was not due to sinister intent, but to too much trust in one’s workers. Perhaps it’s even dirtier than that….maybe he sent someone to pose as a volunteer for Alice and that person intentionally collected fraudulent signatures! Now that I would not put past him!
But, logically, there is no motive for one’s own campaign to make an “effort” to collect fraudulent signatures. It doesn’t change outcomes, it merely saves a few dollars or a few hours.
Zee 10.14.11 at 9:22 pm
But I agree with you, ipotter… it’s a crying shame and lost opportunity that it was not discovered back when it would’ve mattered!
Does anyone know if he has to go through the same process for 2012 to be on the ballots? Could we start challenging and combing thru lists this go round?
Zee 10.14.11 at 9:43 pm
freddiebrown!!
You may be right…I should keep trying. I may have a phobia or an idea that wiring is too “hard” for me.
But you have stumped me on the junk labs! I have tried various permutations on google but can’t find the site.
freddiebrown 10.14.11 at 9:45 pm
Zee – “it’s a crying shame and lost opportunity that it was not discovered back when it would’ve mattered ”
Back in 2008, Obama was the golden child that had raised more money in history than anyone else. People/Media/Corporations/Organisations have been bought one way or another…I scratch your back, you scratch mine / pay for play…etc. Palin’s lame stream media only fed us what they wanted us to know. Do you think anyone could have gone on a mountain and shouted out “fraud”and would any one have listened ? No !
On another note, this two people I was talking to in Atlanta wondered aloud if Obama were to take on Hillary as VP, would he win the election.
I told them what the Puma pac here thought but you never know what the rest of the 18,million would do. What I know is that he would do anything to keep his ass warm in the white house..
ipotter 10.14.11 at 9:52 pm
Zee (#40), you are, of course, absolutely correct. The candidates would not want illegal signatures. But if they are saying it might be a conspiracy, I’m okay with that as I think there was enough wrongdoing throughout the 2008 election to qualify as a conspiracy. Obama may not have wanted illegal signatures, but I doubt that his campaign would care. It was an attitude of win at any cost. I like it that this and Solyndra are getting a bit of press (Solyndra = payback to billionaire for campaign contributions, imo).
Silcott’s signature stamp was kept in an unlocked drawer. The only person permitted to use the stamp was new. As I understand it, since she was new, she was not stamping petitions at this time and did very few of them anyway. Looks like this was deliberate.
http://politicons.net/report-signatures-forged-on-2008-obama-ballot-petition/
freddiebrown 10.14.11 at 10:13 pm
Zee – I will get the website when I go home or if I can think.. still in Atlanta. Just get someone to show you the wiring. There has to be some website or utube somewhere with a DIY. He took all sorts of stuff, made a base and “threaded” stuff through a rod and glued them, added the bulb with or without shade. Suckers like me will buy it. It was to be my husbands christmas present. The more feminine one that I liked was already sold so I didn’t get one.
I truly believe in trying it a dozen times or more before calling Uncle. We didn’t know the first thing about designing no handbags and my husband said the world doesn’t need another handbag line when I told him. Ask him what he thinks now. It hasn’t always been easy .. but it sure is cool when the little hand drawings I did got translated into bags which got picked up a few times by InStyle magazine.
Now, I am slightly obsessed with thinking what we can sell to China – that they cannot knock off or produce themself – it would be so good to turn the tables around. So far, no answers.
freddiebrown 10.14.11 at 10:17 pm
Zee – http://www.junklabdesign.com
I googled junk lab lamps…easy
Zee 10.14.11 at 10:40 pm
ipotter, you’re missing the point. Even the campaign that wants to win at any cost does not have to fake signatures! It would be more effort and weird-ass effort at that, for them to do it. It’s laughable….especially since it happens in every single campaign for every single candidate, and that is why, unless one is pressed for time or money, campaigns usually collect MORE than the amount needed.
Sending someone over undercover to collect fake names for one’s opponent, and then challenging them, now THAT would be a fraud worth the effort. If you can’t get the difference, I can’t help explain it, that’s for sure….because it’s a matter of logic.
I completely believe someone used Silcott’s signature stamp. Yes, deliberately. The. woman. just. lost. her. husband. Now, what is the easiest explanation for that “deliberate” use of her stamp?
A. a vast unnecessary, illogical conspiracy with great risk and NO gain for the campaign because the only hurdle to collecting enough signatures is to collect extras to offset any incorrect ones that are turned in
B. someone was helping out their grieving coworker Silcott during her absence, or ….
C. …even just being lazy because there was red tape they didn’t want to go thru during Silcott’s unexpected time off.
Please try to think this through. That was a missed opportunity. But not because it was a deliberate fraud! Please don’t lump it with completely different malfeasances. Wrong-doing elsewhere has no bearing on this. Even if both Obama and his campaign WANTED to commit fraud, and even if they DID commit fraud, no one in their right mind would waste time deliberately putting in fake names because it doesn’t change any outcome! All the candidates can easily gather enough signatures. If anything, they would avoid fake names like the plague because any other candidate can challenge their lists!
If, to use the wildest possible conspiracy, they painstakingly made up fake names so they could then later send in fake voters (another completely hysterical claim that would require a huge time commitment for little gain and large numbers of Americans willing to risk jail) even IF that could be a wild possible motive….they still would’ve gathered enough real names to cover their asses just in case.
So “win at any cost” doesn’t cover this, at all. It’s all risk and no gain….no benefit, therefor no motive.
The logical answer is, it’s human nature fraud and error at the very bottom that every single campaign faces….and it was a sad missed opportunity because it would’ve been a sweet way to get Zero kicked off of one or more state ballots, had we the foresight and ability to challenge every single one of his lists.
Zee 10.14.11 at 10:55 pm
freddiebrown, I tried that combo, right after junk lab lighting!! How did I miss that?
anyway, thanks…I will look it up. Also, I was thinking of going with custom restyled lampshades instead. More in my comfort zone….
Now you have me puzzling over your China export. I just erased two ideas, because they could just fake them!!
ipotter 10.14.11 at 11:47 pm
Zee, I disagree. You think this is laughable, I do not. I DO understand what you are saying, but I also disagree. If a coworker of Silcotts used her signature stamp, they should be held accountable as they were NOT authorized. If the stamp was “borrowed”, then the person who borrowed it should be held accountable. I don’t think this is a laughing matter and I don’t think the petitions were stamped with Silcott’s blessings. When people sign things for another person, they typically tell that person what they have signed their name to or leave a note at least. The only person who was authorized (key word… authorized) to use her signature did not. For heaven’s sake, Silcott herself is saying this is fishy!
The campaign may not have had to fake signatures, but who provided the workers with the signature petitions from the previous elections so they could use them to copy those signatures? How widespread is this problem? It needs to be investigated and I’m glad it is finally going to be.
Just because it happens all the time does not mean it is okay. Things won’t change if we all take the attitude you are taking.
Bottom line… OBAMA DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH LEGAL SIGNATURES TO BE ON THE BALLOT IN INDIANA… and I have not forgotten all the illegal shit his campaign pulled to get their candidate into office. His campaign may indeed have been short on funds and been cutting corners at this time. You seem to be giving him the benefit of the doubt. I’ll never cut the bastard any slack at all. Guess that’s our main difference on this.
freddiebrown 10.15.11 at 12:04 am
Zee – remember. If your product seems easy to make and people think they can easily make that “too” then you’re less viable.
If you can think of any thing made in USA that cannot be replicated easily you’re a better gal than me, Charlie Brown. I have been thinking for years almost – just obsessed now. I am thinking something that is a natural resource here. Chippendales ?
TexasTigress 10.15.11 at 6:19 am
Fucking finally …. Great read , Murphy . REALLY great read . Thank you .
Elliesmom 10.15.11 at 9:02 am
Thanks, Murphy. I was beginning to think that all of the women who blog had gone nuts. As a veteran protester from the late sixties and seventies, it’s sad for me to see that not much has changed in the male/female dynamic of the protest.”You come to our protest, provide us with sex, make sure we get fed, and that our shit gets cleaned up, but we’re too busy to march with you.” While I think it’s smart of them to include equal representation for women in their manifesto, they could have had better representation by women at any time if they had voted for them. That’s not Wall Street’s fault. I’ll go back to lurking now.
ipotter 10.15.11 at 11:34 am
Oh Zee, one more thing… this “completely unlikely fabrication” that you believe “anyone who cares about giving Obama a taste of his own medicine can’t get caught up in” IS A STATE INVESTIGATION INTO ELECTION FRAUD… not a fabrication as you seem to believe.
If you want to see it as simply a missed opportunity, so be it. I would have to say that anyone with two brain cells has to realize it was a missed opportunity… and much, much more.
freddiebrown 10.15.11 at 12:04 pm
Those of you wanting to participate in OWS should err on being safe and careful. You’re among youth that can be emotional and excitable…this is the link to what is happening:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/15/world/occupy-goes-global/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
ipotter 10.15.11 at 12:39 pm
OWS is a crock of shit, imo. Didn’t Obama promise to clean up wallstreet way back when? Oh, but wait! He received more wallstreet $$ in campaign contributions than any other candidate. Those idiots on the street should get a clue and march on the Whitehouse instead.
Now, I’ll leave you ladies to do whatever it is you do these days.
bellecat 10.15.11 at 12:40 pm
Hello sister PUMAS:
Our President HRC, one more time gets it right.
Please check the Newsweek.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/10/14/hillary-clinton-speech-to-economic-club-of-new-york-a-brilliant-moment.html
“Hillary Hits the Mark
Oct 14, 2011 5:39 PM EDT
Buried in a dull speech Friday, the Secretary of State gave D.C. a major reality check: in today’s world, economic power matters more than military might, says Leslie H. Gelb.”
Brava!
Delle 10.15.11 at 2:13 pm
Freddiebrown is right about being careful. Look who is joining up with the OWS now – the American Nazi Party:
http://weaselzippers.us/2011/10/15/american-nazi-party-declares-its-full-support-for-occupy-wall-streets-courage-and-dedication-to-fighting-judeo-capitalist-bankers/
I didn’t even know there was such a party! I suppose the amount of anti-semitism at the Wall Street protest has attracted their attention and brought them out.
This is a report about how the ANP is promoting the OWS; there is no link to their site.
honora 10.15.11 at 2:37 pm
My Georgia Tech daughter is home for fall break. Having a great time and just turned on the GT-Virginia football game (ESPN game) and the announcer is a WOMAN!! I have never heard a football game with a woman calling the game. How wonderful!!
DancesWithPumas 10.15.11 at 3:07 pm
Dang! I’m RVing with 35 other women at Sacred Rock Reserve. Fun! I’d been checking for comments periodically and wondering where the heck was everyone?!
This afternoon I realized I was on the previous post all this time!
Anyway, great post, Murphy!! Thanks!
HP Boston 10.15.11 at 3:18 pm
#55
I watched that speech, she is astounding BRILLANT!
Headclunker 10.15.11 at 6:47 pm
The Obama campaign fund graph machine has cranked up again. Have you heard about those hundreds of thousands of “new” donnors? Well, the third quarter FEC report is in and there are only about 127,000 records for donations, year to date.
It is even worse than 2008 where 1/3 of the donations were unitemized. This time around 2/3rds of the contributions are listed as unitemized. Some stats are listed on the FECK obama team page. We are still finalizing the 2008 database so I am just going to be spot checking the new FEC reports.
yttik 10.15.11 at 6:52 pm
Uhhg, this is offensive:
http://hotchicksofoccupywallstreet.tumblr.com/
stoney42 10.15.11 at 8:29 pm
Interesting and informative post, Murhpy.
goofsmom 10.16.11 at 12:22 am
Headclunker,
#60 – Thank you and the FECK Obama team for all your efforts.
Delle 10.16.11 at 7:44 am
Here is a description – photos and videos with updates- of what went on last night at Times Square:
http://gothamist.com/2011/10/15/live_video_stream_occupy_wall_stree_1.php#photo-1
I think I’m a little lost by now – I am not quite sure what the mob is trying to prove by upsetting the theater district on a Saturday evening and getting so many people angry. Many of them were tourists from out of state coming to see a Broadway show.
I do hope their real goal is not just anarchy.
freddiebrown 10.16.11 at 12:07 pm
Delle – I don’t know why the OWS folks have to protest in businesses. Its bad enough that the economy is sluggish but to obstruct business just doesn’t help anyone.
I think the original OWS had good intentions but as they gather momentum and “popularity” rogue groups like poisonous snakes will come out of the woodwork to align themselves. Its all fun and games until someone gets hurt and buildings get burned.
goofsmom 10.16.11 at 12:38 pm
Freddie,
OT
Re: Internet site for you, I have some ideas. Email me when you get a chance.
goofsmom 10.16.11 at 1:01 pm
I have been thinking long and hard on the OWS and my conclusion, after reading everyone’s input is OWS does not represent me.
I am not part of their 99% because I am a woman. As long as they are an unfocused mass protest count me out.
freddiebrown 10.16.11 at 1:28 pm
Goofsmom, I hear you on the above. I get some of their message but just like anything, if I have to convince myself and do self debate, then it is not good. Many things are not right about it. It goes without saying that this is not dissing the Pumas here that support it.
P/s: I have emailed you.
BigCatLover 10.16.11 at 1:54 pm
I watched part of a panel discussion on c-span last night from Hunter College about Anita Hill’s testimony against Clarence Thomas’s confirmation hearing for the Supreme Court 20 years later. Gloria Steinman was one of 4 or 5 speakers. I was especially distressed with Steinman’s talk where she seemed to be equating women’s rights with AA rights and class warfare problems. Are women’s rights now only important when linked with other oppressed groups? Here is the link to the video of the panel:
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/HillTe
goofsmom 10.16.11 at 2:02 pm
Freddie,
#68 – I think supporting freedom of speech is important. I just think calling them the 99% is very misleading.
Being to inclusive a movement can be just as bad as to exclusive. That is my biggest problem with them, the lack of a core of issues.
They cite that they are akin to the protests of the ’60′s and they aren’t. Those protests had core issues.
p.s. You have mail back..
goofsmom 10.16.11 at 2:04 pm
BigCat,
#69 – That seems to be what womens issues have become. A by product, afterthought, dismissed and devalued. Even for former womens movement founders and spokeswomen.
yttik 10.16.11 at 7:03 pm
They now have Occupy condoms:
http://www.condomania.com/occupy-condoms.html
And the hot chicks of Occupy
http://hotchicksofoccupywallstreet.tumblr.com/
If this movement were not a dude-bro movement there would be signs about how 70% of the poor who live on less then a dollar a day are women, about how women only own 1% of the world’s property, how women, even in the US, only earn 78 cents on the dollar, if they are paid at all. How can you have a movement for economic justice and not focus on the economic injustice women have been experiencing for centuries?
The irony of those condoms really gets to me. “…lots of people out there are tired of feeling screwed. Occupy Condoms say it all in a neat little package while affording young protestors the protection they need to stay safe in the passionate frenzy that is social protest.”
We won’t be screwed! We will come first! Women however, shall go right on being screwed both literally and figuratively.
Delle 10.16.11 at 7:50 pm
Look who is fighting for the interests of the 99%:
http://weaselzippers.us/2011/10/16/white-house-spokesman-snuggles-up-to-the-occupiers-obama-is-fighting-for-the-interests-of-the-99/#comments
Maybe he thinks of them as his private army. He said he wanted one, remember?
goofsmom 10.16.11 at 9:37 pm
yttik,
# 72 – Ditto and Amen.
Alessandro Machi 10.17.11 at 12:45 am
yes, what is these protestors could protest that would help the most people possible. I have suggested that they fight to change debt restructuring laws.
Right now, “Debt restructuring first requires a default”. Change this one banking paradigm to “Debt restructuring DOES NOT first require a default”, and main street can instantly fight back against the banks.
I’ve suggested it numerous times, that’s all I can do.
DancesWithPumas 10.17.11 at 12:48 am
Delle,
Right! Obama and his wall street admin and wall street are in gahoots solely for the sake of the 99%!
Obama is such a whore.
Delle 10.17.11 at 4:08 am
DWP #76
Obama is such a whore.
___________________
You’re being kind.
freddiebrown 10.17.11 at 5:44 am
Why the protesters are not around the White House is still baffling me. I have a feeling the OWS folks are pro-Obama and are “sparing him” while they take the high road of Wall Street.
Anyway, the sand man going on the road to promote his jobs fairy tale.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/17/politics/obama-jobs-tour/index.html
Why does he want to take this country down the rabbit hole when he clearly doesn’t have our country’s back ?? If there is a God, please !! we don’t deserve another 4 years. He’s Black. He’s President. Done. Let’s move on.
Delle 10.17.11 at 7:37 am
Hillary says it’s time for others to step up:
http://nationaljournal.com/politics/hillary-clinton-it-s-time-for-others-to-step-up–20111017
All this time I’ve been thinking that she will change her mind, but it seems pretty final – she isn’t running.
admin 10.17.11 at 8:45 am
Hot chicks* posted, take it upstairs!
* Just kidding about the hot chicks.
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