When the State executes a person, WE killed him. WE killed Troy Davis tonight. Tea Party type Americans want to believe the government is an Other. They betray an appallingly un-American understanding of the glory of our great country — its grand experiment in democracy, of government by the people — The government IS us. It is not an Other. We demanded it; We fought for it; We died for it. We committed ourselves to making it more perfect every day and in every way. We began with a Union terribly imperfect and dedicated ourselves to making it more perfect. Americans who turn their backs on the government are turning their backs on the very IDEA of America, of the idea of regular citizens MAKING IT MORE PERFECT. Our government failed tonight. WE failed tonight. WE killed a man who may very well have been innocent.
As a self-governed American citizen, what are YOU going to do today to make our government more perfectly reflect your values?
{ 55 comments… read them below or add one }
murphy 09.21.11 at 11:14 pm
from a FB friend: “It’s truly bizarre that the radical right believes the government can’t be trusted w/ taxes, yet they trust them with the death penalty.”
sanctity of life my ass.
murphy 09.21.11 at 11:33 pm
from another FB friend: “The radical right also believes a woman can’t be trusted with a choice but can be trusted to raise a child.”
sanctity of life my ass.
murphy 09.21.11 at 11:47 pm
This is more perfect:
http://outservemag.com/2011/09/101-faces/
DancesWithPumas 09.22.11 at 1:15 am
11:14 PM Pacific Time
theamericanway 09.22.11 at 3:56 am
I take exception to the statement that The government IS us. If that is true, then it seems necessary to assert that Obama IS us.
HP Boston 09.22.11 at 5:39 am
I some times believe there are no innocent men.
I believe the Govern MEN t in Georgia is a dismal failure.
I believe our present AND past Govern MEN t never speaks for me. The men and boys won’t admit a mistake, can not govern worth a damn. We have to be ever on the watch for their treachery and it is rampant.
Today I will make another donation to Elizabeth Waren.
Delle 09.22.11 at 7:17 am
I don’t believe in the death penalty but something definitely has to be done about the sentencing procedures in this country.
‘LAKELAND, Fla. The man accused of killing his wife and then shooting two church pastors had pleaded guilty and been sentenced to 10 years of probation in 1987 in the slaying of a previous wife, according to court records.’
http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/article_4fb0f710-e2d3-11e0-a221-001a4bcf6878.html#ixzz1YSNHikHE
10 years probation! For killing his wife! Now he has killed another one.
He should have been given a life sentence the first time. Then, maybe this woman would still be alive and the 2 pastors would not have been shot.
HP Boston 09.22.11 at 7:35 am
I believe there are two freaks in Ct who need to be put to death immediatly…put the bastards down! THREE killed, raped and tortured..11 year old girl her sister and their mother!
Yes the death penalty is needed asap in this case.
Delle 09.22.11 at 7:45 am
HP – That’s an awful case. I can’t even listen to the news reports – they are so upsetting.
You are right! The death penalty is needed asap. Or else there is a chance that these monsters will be back out on the street within a few years looking for more girls and young women!
HP Boston 09.22.11 at 8:15 am
They had just beem released from prison Delle….they invaded a home and Killed the women after hours of rape and tourched the house, the father was tied up in the basement.
Death sentence! Fucking animals!
Zee 09.22.11 at 9:40 am
Here’s another choice quote from the Con Men book that should cheer everyone up…in that laugh-to-keep-from-crying way we’re reduced to these days:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/suskind-confidence-men-shows-failings-obama-team-rivals-190653876.html
Later, when then-White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel forces Summers to apologize to Orszag, Summers tells Orszag that Obama is not up to the job of being president. “You know, Peter, we’re really home alone here,” Summers said, according to the book. “I mean it. We’re home alone. There’s no adult in charge. Clinton would have never made these mistakes.”
Zee 09.22.11 at 9:41 am
Oh, also, the WH is fuming and attacking the book, accusing Suskind of plagiarizing wikipedia.
HP Boston 09.22.11 at 11:08 am
But of course Zee they are all so perfect and lies abound about those poor innocent boys!
Never their fault the devil made them do it….
oscarp 09.22.11 at 1:10 pm
Good afternoon my PUMA family !
I love life, but at the same time I try to understand why should I or any of us need to pay for a criminal to stay in prison for x number of years waiting for a trial to occur. Killing another human being has no justification, and yet there are many lawyers that defend these criminals. I believe it is about time that something is done to stop kids killing their parents, or parents killing their kids, neighbors killing neighbors, people killing other people. We need to set the rules very clearly. These criminals need to know that they won’t have a life in a prison waiting for ever to be sentenced, and that they will be able to appeal a sentence. You kill, you get executed. Yes, an eye for an eye ! Sounds barbaric, but at least these prospective criminals will know that their lives won’t be respected because they did not repsect someone else’s life. And perhaps these crimes will stop forever. I believe in educating people, but the way we are “educating” these criminals now is not the right way. They know that one way or the other they will spend the rest of their lives in prison, but will it return my loved one? I don’t think so. Do they deserve to die? You bet they do ! Next time they will think twice before taking an innocent life !
oscarp 09.22.11 at 1:15 pm
Oh by the way, I don’t think WE killed them. They killed themselves the moment they decided to kill someone else. I can sleep in peace knowing that I have not killed any human being. Moreover, I have never thought about killing another human being.But if someone ever tries to kill someone I love or another human being and I happen to be there, I will never hesitate to take their lives first !
goofsmom 09.22.11 at 6:40 pm
Very thought provoking Murphy.
We are truly no better than any foreign country that lops off a robbers hand. It just takes us longer to put them to death. Why don’t we just return to the days of outlaw justice? How different is it?
There must be a way to protect others from people that do evil. The system we have now is very broke and has been for years.
Could I do harm to someone who was attacking my loved ones? Yes. Would I feel good or at peace about it? No.
I would feel better about the death penalty if it was really “beyond a reasonable doubt” You catch them in the act, they get the death penalty.
When it is circumstantial and there is any doubt, they get life in prison. Prison, of course, not the excuses we currently have for prison. Some piece of coral sticking up out of the ocean kind of prison.
As long as people are involved in the sentencing process, that have something to gain… Well, we will have the mess we have.
This is my opinion.
goofsmom 09.22.11 at 7:10 pm
americanway,
Obama is US, all of us as a whole society. We are the individual cogs that come together to create U.S.
So when the system fails and we get Obama as Pres, it isn’t just because people cheated, lied and fixed the election. It is also because the rest of US were not involved and corrected the problems with the election systems before WE got an Obama.
Thankfully we have the ability to learn from mistakes of the past and correct them… don’t WE?
Headclunker 09.22.11 at 7:43 pm
Do you think that the execution of a possibly innocent man, that he could have prevented, has added to poooooooooooooooor BO’s depression?
http://atlantapost.com/2011/09/16/is-obama-depressed/#
murphy 09.22.11 at 8:51 pm
Was walking in downtown Boston this evening and a large crowd was gathered in Copley sq with signs, bullhorns protesting Davis’ execution — they were chanting, “Hey obama, where were you, when Troy Davis needed you?”
Many African Americans among the protesters.
@oscarp, we have to pay to incarcerate criminals because we live in a civilized society.
murphy 09.22.11 at 9:55 pm
Agreed, Goofsmom. Life in prison with no parole for heinous crimes. Also, oscarp, the cost of executing a person is higher than the cost of keeping him in prison for life, so from a financial point of view it makes more sense to lock em up and throw away the key. And if we make a mistake and convict an innocent man, if DNA or other evidence comes to light to exonerate him, we can let him go. We cant bring a dead man back to life.
americanway, yes obama IS us — maybe not you or me individually since we’ve been opposed to him from jump street, but the disunity in this country, the idea that the government is some OTHER that has nothing to do with us is SO un-American. We need to get back to our founding principles.
goofsmom 09.22.11 at 10:15 pm
Murphy,
Why did Obama not do something… Oh, that’s right his telepromter and speechwriters couldn’t come up with something fast enough to save this mans life.
He didn’t have to pardon him or anything. All he had to do was get involved and grant a presidential stay of execution and change the sentence to life in prison!
DancesWithPumas 09.22.11 at 10:15 pm
8:14 again…
goofsmom 09.22.11 at 10:18 pm
Dances,
murphy 09.22.11 at 10:22 pm
Right goofs, I read on FB last night that laws prevented obama from stepping in — I dont buy it, but I’m not a lawyer and havent had time to look it up. I thought the president could pardon ANYONE. But even if he couldnt have directly acted he def could have brought pressure to bear, he could have done SOMETHING!!
murphy 09.22.11 at 10:23 pm
obama seems to failing on a spectacular level — even moreso than Jimmy Carter. Ugh, I wish we would have been wrong about him. It’s not even satisfying to know that we were so right.
goofsmom 09.22.11 at 10:29 pm
Murphy,
Sometimes being right doesn’t make one happy. Especially about Obama.
Heard on the radio on the way home that only 55.3 % of all people under the age of 25 have a job. If they were heads of households 30% of them were under the poverty level.
Some of the blame lies squarely at Obuttheads feet.
goofsmom 09.22.11 at 10:50 pm
Murphy,
Maybe not a pardon from Obutthead but he might have been able to grant clemency. I’m looking around on it.
goofsmom 09.22.11 at 10:57 pm
Here you go Muphy. Info on Presidential Pardons and Commutations of sentences.
http://www.justice.gov/pardon/actions_administration.htm
This one gives you more info on it also.
http://www.justice.gov/pardon/clemency.htm
Zee 09.23.11 at 12:21 am
That’s so odd, murphy, that there was an actual crowd calling out Obama, but that’s the power of whatever narrative the media decides to push front and center. I can tell the media-incited crowd where Obama was and has been: busy building new drone bases to support the drone warfare he’s massively increasing even though there are estimates the drones kill 50 civilians for every jihadist they target. And he’s putting the CIA in charge of these attacks so there’s no military accountability.
The question is not where Obama was when it came to sparing one possibly innocent man. The question is where the hell have the war and justice crowds been all this time that Obama has not been sparing, but actually mowing down, innocents all over the globe, in our name?
I did see three old pacifists protesting the multiple wars one evening when I was out near Copley. I just laughed and asked whether they had buyers remorse, and their answer was….”McCain would’ve been worse.”
A. Not really, and
B. at least the crowds protesting McCain would’ve been as massive as Obama’s growing shadow warfare.
Zee 09.23.11 at 12:29 am
#26 goofs, that’s an unbelievable number of young able people unemployed…and note how many of those lucky enough to be employed were still impoverished. So much for Oblahblah’s promises to raise the minimum wage.
All day I’ve still been fuming over his dismissing the entire burgeoning health care industry as “women’s work” and saying men wanted “manly” work. Can you imagine the frothing if Perry had said that? All the nonstop gnashing of teeth over “rednecks?”
I think there was another Republican debate tonight….and they allowed in someone socially progressive-fiscally conservative who used to be a governor…I wanted to see it, but had to be out and forgot to record it.
invalidresponse 09.23.11 at 12:46 am
what kind of America do we live in when in one repub debate the crowd cheers about executions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xT1iMvTwYI
and then in the next debate, boos and American soldier SERVING in IRAQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwoh6g05hj4
those people make me sick to my stomach!
invalidresponse 09.23.11 at 12:49 am
Zee #30
Here is a link that you can watch that debate if you want to see it, word to the wise, bring your barf bag
http://www.youtube.com/foxnews
Zee 09.23.11 at 12:58 am
Thanks, invalidresponse! Hmmmm….maybe you’re right and I wouldn’t be able to stomach it. The last time I stayed on the phone w/ my mom to have running commentary relief!
Delle 09.23.11 at 9:06 am
Zee #29
The question is where the hell have the war and justice crowds been all this time that Obama has not been sparing, but actually mowing down, innocents all over the globe, in our name?
______________
I’ve been asking myself the same question. I still remember very well the marches and demonstrations – some of them enormous – which took place in every major city as a response to the war in Iraq. At least Bush went before congress and got their approval – for what it was worth.
Obama is just intruding into one country after another without any authority. He admits now that we have ground troops in Libya and he seems to be anxious to get us involved in Sryia too. Earlier in the week, I learned that the US is building new bases throughout Africa.
So, where is everybody? Why won’t the anti-war protesters show their discontent? Are they concerned about further weakening a democrat president and possibly getting stuck with a republican? Is it because of race?
I really have no idea, but I do wish they would show themselves.
DancesWithPumas 09.23.11 at 9:17 am
“At least Bush went before congress and got their approval – for what it was worth.”
—————
Let’s not use the “at least Bush…” comparisons. Obama abd Bush are both corporatist war-mongering losers. They both suck.
Bush got approval based on lies. Bush got approval based on the shock and other emotions of congress. Bush Inc were salivating for war in Iraq since the raygun 80s. So let’s not pretend that “at least bush” (loved his country, knew what he believed in, was a patriot, got approval, etc.)
Thanks.
Delle 09.23.11 at 9:35 am
DWP #35
I agree with everything you said, but that wasn’t the question.
How come all the protestors who came out by the millions to demonstrate and march against Bush, aren’t doing the same thing against Obama?
HP Boston 09.23.11 at 9:53 am
#35 right on
Why is it that the tea party and ALL Americans are not protesting the wars, the draft and the drones? Do they even know? Have they lost their flags? Are they too busy telling their troubled to jesus?
Zee 09.23.11 at 10:24 am
The reason is that unless the media hypes (fill in the blank) not only will people not know enough about it to get upset, but also if they do act, no one will know if the media does not cover that! That is why I was so upset when people did rally in DC to question Obama, but the entire event was overshadowed by Jon Stewart’s competing “anti-Beck” mock-rally. The workers rally did take place, but got next to no coverage, and was recast as “support” for Obama even though teachers and others had come from all over the country to protest.
Another reason might be people are so busy trying to keep their noses above water they simply have no time to do anything else.
There are protests going on now in NYC, but very little info on it. Not sure if it was poorly organized or what, but it was definitely ignored by the media. The plan was to march on Wall Street.
Zee 09.23.11 at 10:40 am
As far as I know, we’re essentially at war with and/or occupying Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Pakistan….even tho much of that war is being fought from VA (CIA) via Predator Drone. Remember Obama’s “joke” about using a Predator drone on some boy band if they messed with his daughters? Yep, Bush and Zero are a pair, all right (Bush’s “joke” about looking under his desk for WMD). They both think it’s jolly good fun to play at the “manliest” game out there….toy soldiers….altho Zero’s is the “video game” version. Too bad their “games” involve humans.
I guess the CIA will be sending their “Enders Game” remote assassins to those new bases in Africa. No oversight, no accountability, and as Glenn Greenwald and others have been pointing out, these measures, with their high incidence of blown up “collateral” –eg, women and children and other bystanders — ensure that more “terrorists” are created as they witness the carnage and vow vengeance. Bloodbath, rinse, repeat.
Zee 09.23.11 at 10:55 am
Sorry, murphy….didn’t mean to sidetrack your topic, but for me the frustration is that most people can’t get worked up about abstract ideals, unfortunately. Prison and justice reform is direly needed, and we missed our best chance when the Webb-Delahunt bill died a couple of year ago. No one even knew about it….no media coverage. As the movie “Wag the Dog” pointed out, they couldn’t engage people in their fake war without a “hero.” People respond more to “stories.” Thus, the Narrative. Our so-called news has to filter everything thru a Narrative. It’s maddening. Thus we get the “coverage” of the GOP debate boiling down to whether front-runner Perry got a zing in at Mitt-wit, or not. They choose a main “character” and tell the entire “story” from his POV.
We missed an opportunity, as a nation, to care about all the “Troys” out there when that prison reform bill died…and I’m not saying it’s anyone’s fault. It’s a topic that interests me, and even I did not find out about it till it had one month (December, naturally, when no one has anything else on their minds..!) to drum up enough support or die. It was a super close vote, too.
DancesWithPumas 09.23.11 at 11:21 am
Delle
How come all the protestors who came out by the millions to demonstrate and march against Bush, aren’t doing the same thing against Obama?
——————
Agree with you there.
I was objecting to the implication that bush was a cut above obama in certain respects. He isn’t and wasn’t. Obama and Bush are interchangable losers as are their lemming followers.
Dragonfly 09.23.11 at 12:50 pm
Hi, PUMAs!
oscarp, good to see you again!
murphy, I can’t tell you how hard it was to follow the law concerning the application of the death penalty to a young man who was 17 but tried as an adult. I was a clerk and had to review the record and the lower court decision, then write a memo to my judge regarding the law supporting – requiring – affirmance of the death penalty sentence. What the young man did was lie in wait to kill a young mother in front of her toddler, who was left with his mother, dying, in the home. His mother probably took about two minutes to die right in front of her son.
There are people who are put on death row who did not in fact commit the crime for which they were sentenced to death. If one person is executed for a crime he or she did not commit, then the death penalty is unjust even if one believes that the death penalty is an appropriate punishment.
Philosophically, perhaps no one is innocent, but the defendant in our system does not have the burden of proof. The government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person is guilty of the crime charged, and yet there are people who are put to death when they did not commit the crime. Because of the likelihood that mistakes are made, we are all human after all, then we should be much more careful about the death penalty than we are as a society. Perhaps there should be no death penalty, but the law at this time fully supports that as a punishment. Is that wrong? Look at nations we compare ourselves to – do those nations apply the death penalty? If we consider ourselves having values in common with Great Britain, Ireland, Scandinavian countries, Germany, Greece, France, Italy and Spain, then I think you will find it is interesting how differently they apply punishments.
Great post, murphy.
Zee 09.23.11 at 2:54 pm
Dragonfly, that does sound like hell…what a sad story.
It does stir a murderous desire for revenge and “justice” for that young mother.
I don’t know why, but once the offenders are incarcerated, I’m for humane treatment and rehabilitation. For one thing, there are a lot of mentally ill and drug addicted people in prison…they need treatment. For another, even people lawfully convicted of crimes they did commit…many of those laws are not applied equally to the rich and powerful!
Apparently, Feingold also had a bill that went nowhere, regarding capital punishment. Now, it seems, all of our representatives who championed updates to our penal system are either out of office or soon to be.
Zee 09.23.11 at 3:07 pm
More off-topic…grrr….
check this out:
http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/23/bristol-palin-heckler-saddle-ranch-video-whore-mother-sarah-palin-sunset-strip-reality-tv-show-mechanical-bull/#.Tnzf0XZwe-o
A 47 year old man heckled Bristol Palin, who was filming a reality show…..she was riding a mechanical bull at a bar and after she fell off the disgusting man yelled: “Did you ride Levi like that? Your mother’s a whore.”
Since they were filming Bristol it’s all on video. He also called Bristol “Wasilla White Trash” and a “fucking bitch.” Oh….he also whined that she came up to him! As if his yelling that crap was not the initial assault!
Please go visit the link because they are holding a poll and right now the viewers are saying that Bristol’s “homophobia” is worse than the “heckling.” —which is fine to be up for debate, but let’s name the sexist, woman-hating misogyny for what it is, as opposed to “heckling.”
(Bristol asked the man if he was a homosexual and if that was why he called her mom evil and the devil…he said yes and asked why she asked and she said it was because she saw him with his boyfriend…the tape is hard to understand, but I saw the transcript elsewhere.)
Anyway….a-HEM…I seem to recall a PUMA somewhere asking whether others had experience with gay men being misogynistic. This seems to be a case in point.
I don’t care if he’s straight, gay, bi, tran, whatever. A 47 year old crude dude asking a young woman if that was how she “rode” her teen boyfriend is inexcusable.
And this is all on top of Mike Tyson saying even more crude stuff about Sarah Palin riding black men and getting her inner organs rearranged….how low are these guys going to go?
Delle 09.23.11 at 4:40 pm
This is OT again also, but I just had to post it. I can hardly believe what I am reading!
The obama administration is going to ban asthma inhalers!
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-administration-ban-asthma-inhalers-over-environmental-concerns_594113.html
I have a relative who has asthma and carries his inhaler around with him. He depends upon it. He did try the so called ‘green inhaler’ and found it to be outrageously expensive. So, he went back to the brand he purchases in the pharmacy.
Now what? He and other sufferers have to walk around choking and gasping for breath? This is obscene!
One can only assume that the manufacturers of the ‘prescription-only’ version bought this regulation with a promise of a donation to the Zero reelection committee.
theamericanway 09.24.11 at 8:33 am
Headclunker, 42 is ready.
Murphy, goofsmom – thanks for the extra help!
oscarp 09.24.11 at 6:34 pm
Good evening my PUMA family !
Dragonfly, it is great to be back ! (although I was never gone, just lurking and posting here and there)
I was selected as a jury member in a case involving the death penalty. The case could not be proved in favor of any of the two parties and I was one of the ones declaring that we could not decide on the case. When I am not sure and the evidence is not enough or beyond a reasonable doubt, I don’t feel like voting to condemn that person to die. But when the evidence is there, and the death penalty is the adequate punishment, we just have to do our part to serve justice.And yes, we live in a civilized society, but sometimes I wish there were more civilized individuals. I can tell that Murphy has a great heart, but if someone deserves to be executed just be it.
Zee 09.24.11 at 11:51 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-tells-blacks-stop-complainin-fight-015928905.html
Look who’s the racist now. Unemployment in AA community is double the national percentage…and Oblabla’s bus tour of the midwest *bypassed* black neighborhoods…and yet now Zero is telling African Americans to stop whining and crying and complaining and take off their slippers and get to work…helping HIM.
You couldn’t make this shit up.
Zee 09.24.11 at 11:53 pm
Literally, he told them to take off their bedroom slippers…who’s dog-whistling lazy blacks now? Can you imagine if the Clintons said anything like that????
Headclunker 09.25.11 at 12:41 am
Zee,
The half white man in the Whitehouse is doing what he was put there to do.
Headclunker 09.25.11 at 2:28 pm
https://occupywallst.org/
Britton 09.25.11 at 4:54 pm
Dear Murphy,
PUMA Sister and Brothers good news the campaign website is up and the race is on!
The race is on go to: candicebritton.com. I pray I can unseat my opponent this time.
With help from the 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling I know I can get the job done.
Thank you, Candice
Please repost on the next new thread’s. Thank you for your help and support it has meant a lot to me!
theamericanway 09.25.11 at 5:34 pm
#51
omg
murphy 09.25.11 at 6:42 pm
police attack peaceful women protesters on Wall Street posted,
take it upstairs!
Britton 09.25.11 at 6:42 pm
#51 and 52
OMG is right!
This is America not a police state! Peaceful protest is a part of America and her freedoms.
This is America not Syria!
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