As good a time as any…

Very timely, thanks, Murphy.

I’ve been thinking about this recently for a variety of reasons. It irritates the hell out of me when people discount “psychic” phenomena because it can’t be reproduced in laboratory settings.

One fellow was blustering to me recently on how he made some date of his cry because he wouldn’t “believe” her and then he blathered on about how he would want all data on, for instance, what percentage of dreams came true vs not vs etc etc.

Then, in the same conversation, the self-proclaimed Mr Scientist, when defending the tired old “some women like burqas” meme, started some anecdotal “a friend of mine…” —and he got pissed when I interrupted and said I didn’t give a crap about his friend. So much for percentages there…when it came to defending the old “women want it” bs, one personal experience was a-ok to cite.

His date was the hysterical woman for relating a psychic experience and being dismissed, and I was the hysterical woman for dismissing some anecdote that was supposed to “prove” women want to be draped.

Nice racket these penis-Americans are running.

I didn’t explain my analogy very clearly. I meant that, if adrenaline is needed for a regular human to lift a car during an emergency, maybe there is something like adrenaline needed to cause a psychic vision…something that will be known in the future, yet can’t be regularly reproduced in a lab setting.

Ah, Horatio…

I have a substantial scientific and statistical background. There is the theoretical and there is the empirical. While the theory may not exist, I have too many experiences with ESP to doubt it’s existence. I have my own empirical data.

My father guessed the gender of unborn children of family friends correctly, nine times out of ten. His father had a business as a fortune teller/astrologer. Most of my own experiences involve certain people who I seem to be on the same wavelength with. Friends, that I had not heard of or thought of for years, calling me on the phone as they had just come to mind. Once, I had a premonition about a car accident, and, rounded a corner to narrowly miss a mess.

Off topic, however relevant for TODAY
Women’s Rights Advocates Demand
U.S. Constitution Guarantee Women’s Rights

While Republicans are reading the U.S. Constitution on the floor of the House of Representatives, women’s rights advocates will be outside the Capitol asking: Where are the women?
“John Boehner and his cronies are holding up the U.S. Constitution as a sacred, perfect document. But we know the Constitution is far from perfect because it does not guarantee women’s equality,” says NOW President Terry O’Neill. “I am honored to join Representative Carolyn Maloney, who has been a tireless advocate on Capitol Hill for women’s rights, to highlight the fact that women still are not fully protected in our nation’s Constitution.”
Who:Representative Carolyn Maloney (D-N.Y.)Representative Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) – invited Senator Robert Menendez (D-N.J.)
NOW President Terry O’Neill
Leaders from a broad range of women’s rights organizations
What: Call for Equal Rights Amendment to U.S. Constitution
When: January 6, 11:00 a.m. – 11:30 a.m.
Where: House triangle, outside the Capitol at 1st St. SE and Independence Avenue
“We are way past due for a constitutional amendment explicitly acknowledging women’s rights in the United States,” says O’Neill. “Nothing less will do, as long as sexists like Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia feel completely justified interpreting women’s rights as unprotected in the U.S. Constitution.”

Do apparitions fit into this category? If so, I’ve had several of them. Relatives and friends have visited me in my dreams to say good-bye. I still remember the first time it happened, even though it was over 30 years ago.
During my sleep my nephew appeared to me in a dream. He was eight years old at the time and a very handsome child. In the dream he was wearing white short pants and a white jacket and was just glowing! He told me he had come to say good-bye.
When I awoke I recall thinking that it was a strange dream. I put it out of my mind as I began the day’s business. It was still early when the phone rang. It was my aunt calling to say that there had been a fire during the night and although his three sisters had been saved, my nephew had died.
Just writing about it now brings back the feelings of shock and heartbreak I experienced. But, his visit in my dream did bring me some comfort. I knew that he was happy, peaceful and in a better place.
I’ve had other such apparitions, but they were older relatives of mine whose deaths were not as much of a shock.

Delle
Wow, that is classic ESP.

Delle
Out of body experience? So you think you went to him and not he came to you? Interesting. I don’t have any idea about that, but my sister used to practice trying to astral travel.

Delle
Yes, that’s why I would never try it either. My sister unfortunately, wanted to leave earth and join our parents. She has alot of problems so should not have been trying risky experiences with the supernatural. She never said that she had any luck in her experiences so I don’t think they worked.

BCL and Delle,

yes, back when I used to focus on dreams I could “find” someone, and who they were with, so I do think it’s another plane. But you can also encounter scary things/spirits, so I don’t recommend getting too deep into that world.

I had three encounters with what I called a wraith, before and after a gas explosion that killed two people…and I had a dream connected with that, too. Long story, very odd, and scary.

An ability in this arena is indicated in my chart, but I’m too squeamish to pursue it.

BCL…see, now I’m scared again…what did you mean by “risky experiments with the supernatural?” Any anecdotal evidence on these risks?

BCL #17 – I only had my fortune told once. It was many years ago.
My two brothers and I were in the city to see a Broadway matinee and when we passed the fortune teller we stopped in for a Tarot reading. We did it for fun.
As the woman read my cards, she gave me the creeps. After every card she would look at me with her very piercing blue eyes and ask me if I knew what she meant. And usually I did. She knew things about me that nobody else knew. And I didn’t even realize then, just how accurate whe was. The predictions she made for me are still coming true.
The reason I mentioned my brothers is that neither one of them was very impressed. Both thought the reading too general and could have applied to anyone.
I don’t know what that means, if anything. Or why she was able to read me like a book and not them.
It was an experience I remember very well. Her name was Mrs. Zinn and she was a Hungarian Gypsy. At the time she was located on 8th Ave, near 47th St, but she is no longer there.

Off topic:

John Edwards not named in wife Elizabeth’s will

HILLSBOROUGH, N.C. – The will Elizabeth Edwards signed days before her death last month made no mention of her estranged husband and two-time presidential candidate John Edwards.

The document Elizabeth Edwards signed Dec. 1, six days before her death, also named her eldest child, lawyer Cate Edwards, as the executor of her estate.

In the will, filed in Orange County Superior Court in North Carolina, Edwards left personal effects, furniture, automobiles and other property to be divided among her children — Cate, 12-year-old Emma Claire and 10-year-old Jack.
———–snip
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110106/ap_on_re_us/us_elizabeth_edwards_will

I too believe. I had the “outer body” experience when at 18 months I had pneumonia. As a child I repeated the scene, what everyone was wearing and what my grandmothers were saying to each other. NO one could believe it because I was too young. It wasn’t until I was an adult and my doctor who was writing about this suggested I be hypnotized and it was then for the first time I realized that what I was describing was from watching it from above the room, looking down at everyone and I was being held in the arms of a beautiful woman that glowed.

For those interested in the outer body experiences my Doctor in Ft Lauderdale the late Barbara Rommer
wrote the book “Blessings in Disguise” she interviewed and compiled the stories of both negative and positive out of body experiences.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Blessing-in-Disguise/Barbara-Rommer/e/9781567185850

Zee- Bacon Paradise on Travel Channel !

Thanks for the link, FLBarbara! Negative, too…scary… I like the warm stories, tho…

TT! hahaha, thanks for the tip. I just had a vegan move out. She would not even stop by and meet people for Thanksgiving and say hi…in case she saw the ham, who knows? I offered her buttermilk to make “cornbread” for her meal with family, but no…it’s animal slave product. I said, but it’s from a local organic farm (true) but she said she could not be sure what happened to the cows after they stopped producing. Personally, I think it’s up to meat-eaters to patronize the local organic farms and tip the larger commercial ventures toward more humane practices.

It is a paradox, tho…

love all of these stories – FL Barbara – did you nearly die when you had pneumonia? Sounds as if you had an angel holding you.

Funny you mention Aquarius Sun, Zee and Dances. I am an Aquarius Sun, but my North Node is in Pisces, and I have some things in my chart that relate to these topics.

I actually have a lot of stories on these topics – here are some:

My mother was psychic. She did not like her dreams because they disturbed her. I remember as a child I had terrible nightmares, for years. I asked my mother what she dreamed. She told me she did not dream or that she did not remember them – I am not sure which – but I remember I knew she was lying. This was before I was six years old. The only dream I know about, the only one told to me, was pretty innocuous. She was floating above a person on an operating table, and the person was the mother of our next door neighbor. The surgery was in the abdominal area. That morning, my neighbor and Mom had coffee together, as was their habit, in my mom’s kitchen. Mom asked my neighbor, how is your mother? and the neighbor said that she thought her mom was fine, hadn’t talked to her in several days.

later that day, the neighbor called Mom and said, why did you ask me about my mother? What did you dream? Apparently the neighbor knew about Mom’s dreams. Mom told her the dream and then asked her what she had heard about her mother. My neighbor said that her mom was going to have a hysterectomy.

I remember telling my mother that I wanted her to tell me any dream she had about me. She just smiled and looked away. I knew she never would.

She had an uncanny knowledge of people. She understood people. She urged me to follow the path I am on though I resisted it. She kept saying I needed to be financially independent just in case something happened and I had to support myself and my children. I don’t know if she dreamed it, and she died before this happened, but I married a person who was financially a disaster and who continues to borrow money from his aunt and his mother and live off his girlfriend because he just can’t manage I guess. Something just happened with him – the child support is late and obviously the mortgage is due.

Her mother was psychic too but had no words for that I suspect. She had died giving birth to my mother, but the doctors revived her after several minutes (not sure how long). My grandmother (I never got to meet her, she died when my mom was 12) said (she was a devout Christian) that she had seen the light and Jesus was waiting for her, but that he had told her she could return to be with her children for more time if she felt she should go back or she could come with him. She came back. She supposedly had some sort of amnesia after this and did not remember being pregnant with my mother. She was put in the mental institution in Tuscaloosa AL for six months. I’m sure that was an experience. Anyway, shortly before she died, she told my mother and her friends, who were all in the car together, about a recurring dream my grandmother kept having. SHe asked the kids what they thought it meant. The dream was this: my grandmother wakes in the night to a crying sound. She leaves her bed and checks on each of her children. all are sleeping. then she follows the sound downstairs and sees out the window a cat on the diving board of the swimming pool in the back yard. she knows the cat will drown if she does not get to her. she follows the stairs down and goes to the back door to the pool, but by the time she gets there, the cat has drowned. That’s how it always ends. The family had no cats, by the way. Well, the day she told my mom and the friends this dream was Halloween – it was some function my grandmother was helping with for the middle school kids. In the wee hours of November 1, my grandmother drowned in her sleep – she had congestive heart failure.

Delle, your story reminded me somewhat of my friend Virginia, who saw her father at the foot of her bed the night he died. She was not living in his house, so the night he died she was asleep not knowing anything was wrong. She realized her dad was trying to talk to her and so she sat up in bed and talked to him. He said he came to say goodbye.

After my mother died, I had very interesting dreams about her. One was a recurring dream. I was in different settings – sometimes a grocery store (one that I have been in for other dreams, but not one that is in my waking life), sometimes an old house with a wraparound porch (this house I never saw in my waking life), sometimes our old house where I grew up. I kept hearing her talking or laughing and realizing, oh, Mom is here. I want to find her so I can ask her what it is like after death. In the dream, I knew she had passed and I was trying to contact her. I never did for the longest time. Finally in a dream I realized she and I were together, not in human form but as spirits. She was telling me that we had been together for much longer than my life now and that we would be together again. I realized I was in a womb as she said this, that the pink all around me was actually a womb. It was very peaceful there, very softly lit and I could even hear the rushing of the blood around as a buzz or a hum. I felt so much better as I realized she had never really left me.

When I was 16, I dreamed about my grandmother. She died when I was 11, and she was my fulcrum. Losing her was so much worse than my parents’ divorce. I literally thought I would die because she was dead. Why it took so long, I don’t know, but we were together in the dream. I was in her backyard, which had always been a magical place for me when I was a child, and it was deeper in color, brighter and darker at the same time. She was distant yet with me. I knew she was not with me yet I knew she wanted me to feel that she loved me and missed me. Her eyes were not the blue they had been in life, but black with stars in them. Sounds scary but in the dream I was awed, not frightened.

now I need to cuddle with the dragonflies, but thank you for this thread. About 95 percent of our brain we don’t use. The pineal gland is assumed to be useless after puberty, but actually it is the physiological bridge between our body and spirit. It is the source of our psychic gifts, and if we are meditating on a regular basis, and we use a psychic shield, maybe if we get in touch with a guide or a totem animal spirit, the astral plane can be safe for travel.

Roar On PUMAs! Love to all!

I have a freaky ouija board experience too but I’ve already written too much. did want to add that I knew the gender of my children as soon as they were conceived – for my son, it was the day i took the home test. For my daughter, the day she was conceived, I had this intuition that I was pregnant. three monoths before I got pregnant, I had dreamed about having a little girl, and my daughter looked like the dream girl when my daughter was 14 months old. My daughter’s soul actually came to me in that dream in April of 2001. She talked like an adult while in this toddler body I was holding, and I talked to her as if I knew her soul. I told her, I like your new look. It’s kind of funny.

gotta go now but again love the topic, thanks!

I’m enjoying everyone’s stories.

My premonitory dreams are place or event dreams that involve someone close to me or me. I have had these dreams since childhood. They are different than regular dreams because they are so much sharper and include touch and smells.

I used to keep a diary of them and the event would usually occur within 2 to 4 months after the dream.

#37 – LOL

Good News… I’m not going to NY myself. Thanks to all for good wishes.

freddiebrown,

#40 – Yea!!

Night Dances and PUMAs.
The best is next to come.

After relating my own experiences yesterday and reading all the other interesting comments, I was almost afraid to go to bed last night. But I slept well and I am back with another memory. This one more recent.

Last autumn my husband and I drove down a local street where we saw an old friend of the family outside his home raking leaves. I said to Hubby “There’s Bob”. We both waved.

Sounds ordinary so far, right? Unfortunately our family friend Bob passed away about ten years ago. It took Hubby and I a few minutes to realize what had happened. We still talk about it with family and friends. They believe us, but have no explanation.

Either Hubby and I saw a ghost or we were both having an hallucination at the exact same time.

BTW take care easterners. The snow has already begun falling here in NY.

Friday’s tabloids are out
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2011/01/07/tabloids-snow-politics-banker-takes-the-white-house-business-jr-jr/

honora

you may have a story you have forgotten . . . do you remember your dreams? I agree with Texas Tigress. We are all psychic. We just may not have that door open or it may open and close.

I love that you will be eating cheeseburgers and drinking beer. Delle, Bob must have taken good care of his yard! I don’t think anyone will see my ghost doing yard work.

My daughter who is 8 reports seeing a ghost. She was at a house that is about 100 years old, and her stepgrandfather has lived in it all his life. His mother died in the house. The room where she died is connected to a bathroom. My daughter was in the bathroom and she looked over to the bedroom and saw an “old lady on a walker” and described her clothing, everything. She told this to her grandparents, and my mother in law was quick to tell me about it as she too is fascinated by the paranormal. She had an aunt or a cousin who was clairvoyant.

So, my daughter apparently saw the ghost of her step-great grandmother!

Zee
The LTP “less than positive ” experiences that are in Dr Rommers book “turned” the lives of those experiencing them around which is why she refers to All out of body experiences as “Blessings in Disguise”. It is more fascinating to read the LTP and then see how each persons reacted to it. The LTP experiences are not usually talked about but do definitely occur. I highly recommend the book.
Something interesting to add I have an
Auto graph copy and when Barbara dated it she wrote Jan 20, it was actually July 5th she said ” she felt directed to write Jan 20″ well..Jan 20 is my grandmother Lillys Bday and July 5 is the day she died.

So I guess, we should all bring a fork because the best is yet to come.

It is snowing cats and dogs at 10:30 am in NY now. Been snowing since we arrived at 6 am. It looks like white confetti coming down. Had already taken a walk to La Bergamot to get fantastic French pastry for breakfast. Hotel staff brought fruits/sparking water and ice and there is a huge deep soaking tub in the bed room with great view of downtown.. early check in…Someone is smiling on me today Thank you !!

So it was very uneventful at leaving San Diego airport for JFK. No pat downs, no nothing… same as before,,,you just walk through the x ray “frame” like one always does and that was that. We joked that Fred (my dog that flies with us) would love to have a pat down and if anyone wanted to grope his junk, he’s all for it. Maybe leaving JFK may be different.. or maybe late night flights they figure it is low threat.

freddiebrown
Does Fred fly in a seat with you? I don’t know what the regs are about pets flying in the cabin, but Uppity did a column the other day on the dead and disappearing pets with Delta airlines. I’m pretty sure these animals were flying in the baggage hold.

There’s been bedlam in the House of Reps this morning as Rep Weiner challenged the Speaker Designate (not Boehner) on some of the rules and procedures they’ve been following. I guess this is normal to challenge the new party in power, but looks bad to the public.

Several cats were killed or escaped (supposedly) in the Delta incidents and they are small, so their owners must not have paid for a seat for them? The dogs were larger, even a German Shepherd. As long as airline personnel don’t ever touch the carrier, I guess it could be safe to fly with pets. So far, I’ve never had to take one when I fly.

I may have told this story before but when I flew to Italy with the local art museum, a woman on the plane flew with her Siamese cat (I didn’t see it but the museum director was sitting across the aisle from her and met the cat). The funny part was that the woman who was elderly was flying with a young male companion and he had to sit in another section of the airplane.

I have a few experiences to share but I’m interested in the reasons so many are reluctant to open ourselves to, to embrace our ability to experience phenomena of other, albeit simultaneous, planes.

I tend to believe that the crusades, the burning times, patriarchy, especially as promoted via patriarchal religions, have created and promoted the deeply seeded fears that have been carried down through generations of women.

Men are not excluded from this. Many who returned from Viet Nam with PTSD, reported paranormal experiences. I’m certain others did and would not share their experiences, by reasoning of being diagnosed as schizophrenia or some other clinical diagnosis that would impact or disable their future plans, in the military or otherwise. See WBD’s comment at #1.
In another time and place we and they would have been honored as seers, shaman, witches…

Children seem to be the most open, but are also discouraged / trained at an early age to abandon their ‘imaginary’ friends, etc.

As I said above, I have had many psychic experiences through a variety of forms throughout my life. The most intense, vivid, and consistent period lasted about three years, maybe 20 or so, years ago. [So much so that Michael Harner invited me to join his advanced journeying workshop without going through the requisite beginner/intermediate workshops]. BUT, after my curiosity, interest, and novelty wore off, I became frustrated knowing that I wasn’t bright enough nor insightful enough to recognize nor apply these phenomena to any useful purpose, and given that, I just didn’t see a point to any of it so I closed myself to it.

I still have experiences, they come and go, I notice them, I try to glean some sort of significance from them, I let them slide down into my memory bank, and I move on with the activities of daily living.

I do wonder though, what we can do about those who, through the ages, have conspired to keep us from our powers? I wonder what we can do to encourage people to accept these experiences, to normalize them in everyday life without having to abandon chosen lifestyles to join those who allow and cultivate these gifts. I mean, we’re all not going to relocate to Northern California, or other ‘underground’ communities, etc.

Sorry this is so long and I hope you can follow my rambling, and thank you for sharing your experiences.

Just my 6th cents

Theo Mastema 01.06.11 at 10:57 pm
I think it’s good that at last serious scientists might start studying these experiences.
Maybe we need another ten or twenty year and then there are enough properly documented natural explanations for these experiences.

However, when I read the comments on this page, I have little faith that facts will make those people change their supernatural minds.
Something like: “You say science has proven the world is a sphere, but I can see with my own eyes that it’s flat. My friends think so too.”
——————-
Just so you know, scientists have been studying these experiences for a long time.
Are you saying after millenia we need ten or twenty more years for ‘serious scientists’ to validate our experiences?
I hate to use your flat earth example, but, are you sure the earth is an orb? Is it possible that we experience the physical based on agreement because we couldn’t handle, nor operate, in random chaos?
And, aren’t you being a party to the flat-Earther perception by denying the existence of phenomena that perhaps you haven’t experienced first hand?

PS If the intent of your comment was to insult or patronize, I can tell you those attitudes are not welcome.

PS
“Democratic Underground” is an oxymoron in and of itself.

Before this thread is closed and a new one started, I’d like to thank Murphy for choosing this topic. It’s absolutely fascinating and has led to some very interesting conversation.

For the last two days I have felt as if I’ve been watching a ‘One Step Beyond’ marathon.

For those of you who are still youngsters, One Step Beyond was a great television series from the early sixties. The stories were based on supernatural and paranormal events which claimed to be true. When I watched the episode about Abraham Lincoln dreaming that he was at his own wake, I was hooked on this stuff.

Considering my interest in the stories I’ve read here, I guess I still am hooked.

Thanks to all those who shared their stories and personal experiences.

DWP
Are you going to share your experiences?

DWP
That’s plenty. Astral travel is common? I’d love to know why you say that, but won’t pry since you feel so protective of your abilities.

DancesWithPumas 01.07.11 at 2:13 pm
“Are you saying after millenia we need ten or twenty more years for ’serious scientists’ to validate our experiences?”
———–
No I don’t, because I disagree with the idea that those experiences have been properly studied for millenia.

Furthermore, quite some of the resarch that has been done and that I’ve read points into a different direction and dismisses the supernatural claims.

However, I have also read a lot of stories and explanations that do accept supernatural causes, but I have always had problems with their way of proving their right.
So did the scientific community, so much even that they hardly ever looked into the matter.
I’m glad they’re doing it now and that at last these ideas come under scientific scrutiny of peer review.

I used the flat earth example to show that sometimes an explanation seems to go against common sense and experience.
The “friends remark” was added to underline te influence of group processes.
I consider the earth a sphere because it’s the best explanation available.

“PS If the intent of your comment was to insult or patronize, I can tell you those attitudes are not welcome.”
—————-
Why do you say that?
My intentions are honest, I simply have an opinion and try to argue for it.

However, I have also read a lot of stories and explanations that do accept supernatural causes, but I have always had problems with their way of proving their right.
===
I have a problem with the way ‘scientists’ go about trying to prove / disprove paranormal reality. It’s a nuisance and damaging in that they tend to use ludicrous methods, it’s damaging because it reinforces the negative attitudes towards psychic realities and keeps those experiencing it in the closet and or underground, for the most part.
Just another way for teh boiz to keep the power of women fromus.
===

“PS If the intent of your comment was to insult or patronize, I can tell you those attitudes are not welcome.”
—————-
Why do you say that?
My intentions are honest, I simply have an opinion and try to argue for it.
————–
Then you have the benefit of the doubt.

Racial Division, the Spin is In.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/in-2012-obama-may-need-a-new-coalition-20110105?page=1

BO has done for the Dems, what Bush did for the Republicans

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/06/dem-id-down-five-points/

Keep in mind, that Gallup has been changing their polling methods, also.

I think you are right and I can understand.
Challenge them. (or is that too competitive and is my advice distorted by my “masculine” look upon things?;)
——————
Heh!
I keep an eye on the ways in which the patriarchy expresses and reinforces itself, but mostly I focus on my relationships with and in support of girls and women. Life is just too short.

freddiebrown, I about laughed myself sick over how your canine companion would be happy to have someone touch his junk.

BCL, I’ve flown with my hound, too. They do charge for that, at times it rivals the cost of my seat! I’ve thought about getting some kind of doctor’s note that my pet is a service dog for my anxiety…in that case not only would his travel be free but he would not be consigned to the space under the seat by my feet.

They have to fit under the seat in front of you. The criteria as I understand it is that the dog has to be able to stand up in the carrier. My dog is much larger than most allowed to fly with the people…the only reason he can stand up in the carrier is he’s a dachshund, short legs…other than that he’s very long and very heavy to lug around, and I found probably the only carrier that could fit him and fit under the seat. He’s a good traveler, tho….and once the flight attendant let him stay on my lap under a blanket during a delay before takeoff.

The Morning Sneeze: Obama’s pride in the Bush cuts “he fought for”
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2011/01/08/the-morning-sneeze-yeay-bushs-tax-cuts/

Somewhat, but not entirely off topic, I had made a post on the on the feminism discussion on Dakinikat’s blog referencing Obama’s attitude towards women as being Muslim. I received a negative response and did not pursue it, at the moderators request. However, in defense of science, I must say that whenever I get my wires crossed on emotional issues, I revert to science and statistics for clarity.

Yes, statistics can “lie”. They can be biased to support a point someone else wants you to buy in to. And they may only tell you something with limited confidence levels. Some thinks you just cannot know for sure.

However, being particularly inclined to math and statistics, I can usually tell when the analysis is valid or not. More to the usefulness of science and statistics, if you are seeking the reality of the situation in order to determine a productive and effective course of action, you just want them to tell you the “truth”

So, how about that term “Muslim Extremism”? To a statistician, that means people who are outside certain limits on a bell curve. Conventional statistics usually draws this line at about 95% of the population.

Using 5% of the population as a rough guideline, can most religions dismiss their violent or otherwise harmful behaviors as such being extreme?

In that perspective, looking at the limited amount of information on Muslim “extremists”, I have to view such dismissal of radical Islamic beliefs as bullshit.

OK, so you know some nice people who are Muslim. And there is no excuse for harmful behaviors towards them. But the information I see on the levels of the Muslim population that believe in violence towards others is appropriate, is too prevalent to dismiss as an extreme and is, in fact, part of the norm for the population.

Feel free to disagree, but please show me your data. Most I found is about 5 years old and indicates between 30% and 70% of the Muslim population has attitudes that many are trying to dismiss as extreme.

And, I could find NO info on Muslim opinions on Women.

Oh, and for the record…Zero’s attitude toward women is most solidly rooted in 1950′s Americana. If your assertion is that globally, extremism toward women is the Muslim norm, you’ll get no argument from me. But to equate Obama’s mad-men era pontificating that the First Lady is a “mom first” with Muslim barbarism is to undercut your own assertion. Being an asshole is not the same as burying a raped child up to the neck and stoning her by LAW. Not even close.

#92

Ditto