Open Thread, with demolition

by murphy on April 6, 2010

in open thread,profound question of the day

So the news, such as it is, sucks in all departments. You can read it everywhere, but I suggest HERE, HERE, and HERE. Oh, and HERE. Her latest essay on the perniciousness of feminine beauty is an instant, send it to all your friends classic.

I took the picture above of my back stairs about a week ago. Today they are mostly demolished and ready to be rebuilt. Which is a pretty good metaphor of my entire freaking life right now. I’m doing all the work myself, with some measuring and pep talk help from Skipper. I will keep you posted on the progress.

Update, three minutes later: Dear God. I just followed a link at Dakini’s post to THIS STORY. So the parents in this Mississippi town tricked a lesbian girl and some special needs kids (CHILDREN!!) into attending a fake prom so that their own popular children could celebrate without the presence of losers?? This comes on the heels, for me at least, of the big story here in Massachusetts about the teenagers and adults in South Hadley who abused and bullied a beautiful young girl into HANGING HERSELF for being a, wait for it, Big Slut.

Where’s my goddamned sledge hammer?

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{ 52 comments… read them below or add one }

1

Zee 04.06.10 at 1:08 pm

“Two students with learning difficulties were among the seven people at the country club event, McMillen recalls. ‘They had the time of their lives,’ McMillen says. “That’s the one good thing that come out of this, [these kids] didn’t have to worry about people making fun of them [at their prom].’ ”

This sounds like an accomplished, mature young woman with a ton of perspective and good nature and moral conviction, and I predict she will go far in life.

2

Zee 04.06.10 at 1:10 pm

Murphy, I can’t believe you’re tackling construction on your own! Brava. And I’ve been staring at my back porch and whimpering about the thought of power-washing, sanding and refinishing it. It’s all deeply scratched from where the flying dachshund launches himself into the air after the birds and squirrels.

3

murphy 04.06.10 at 1:11 pm

I agree Zee. But it still breaks my heart. Imagine the parents of those special needs kids?

4

Zee 04.06.10 at 1:15 pm

murphy….I’m glad you highlighted that aspect. I hadn’t heard who the other kids were. It’s beyond despicable. I’m just impressed with this young woman’s attitude.

5

Zee 04.06.10 at 1:17 pm

Lugging a couple comments up from downstairs:

Dragonfly, it’s wontbackdown who recounted losing her father, not me. (((((wbd)))))

also….I might be losing my mind, but OFA called me today, and the obots are holding a meeting in my town tomorrow night. I held my tongue, and may go undercover!!

I’m just so curious what the hell their next big plan of action is…

6

Notyoursweetie 04.06.10 at 1:24 pm

7

sistermoon3 04.06.10 at 1:54 pm

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/04/06/obama_cant_name_a_white_sox_player.html

and you thought the tax question answer of 17 mins was bad?

8

Zee 04.06.10 at 2:16 pm

oh, and they gave Martha Coakley a hard time?!!!

9

murphy 04.06.10 at 2:53 pm

RIP Wilma Mankiller.

http://womensmediacenter.com/blog/2010/04/cherokee-chief-wilma-mankiller-passes-away/

Wilma Pearl Mankiller was the sixth of eleven children. [1] Her parents were Charley Mankiller (November 15, 1914 — February 1971)[2][3] and Clara Irene Sitton (born September 18, 1921), who is of Dutch and Irish descent, but acculturated to Cherokee life.[4]
The family surname, Mankiller, is a traditional Cherokee military rank and is Asgaya-dihi in Cherokee,[5] which is alternatively spelled Outacity[6] or Outacite.
The Mankiller family lived on Charley’s allotment lands of Mankiller Flats near Rocky Mountain, Oklahoma.[7] In 1942 the US Army declared 45 Cherokee families’ allotment lands, near those of Mankiller’s family, in order to expand Camp Gruber.[8] The Mankillers willingly left under the Bureau of Indian Affairs’ Indian Relocation Program. They moved to San Francisco, California in 1956 and later Daly City.[9]
In 1963, at the age of 17, Mankiller married Hector Hugo Olaya de Bardi, an Ecuadorian college student.[10] They moved to Oakland and had two daughters, Felicia Olaya, born in 1964, and Gina Olaya, born in 1966.[11]
Mankiller returned to school, first at Skyline College, and then San Francisco State University.[12] She had been very involved in San Francisco’s Indian Center throughout her time in California. In the late 1960s, Mankiller joined the activist movement and participated in the Occupation of Alcatraz Island in 1969. For five years, she volunteered for the Pit River Tribe.[13]
After divorcing Hugo Olaya, Mankiller moved back to Oklahoma with her two young daughters in 1977, in hopes of helping her own people and began an entry-level job for the Cherokee Nation.
[edit]Political career

By 1983, she was elected deputy chief of the Cherokee Nation,[14] alongside Ross Swimmer, who was serving his third consecutive term as principal chief. In 1985, Chief Swimmer resigned to take the position as head of the Bureau of Indian Affairs. This allowed Mankiller to become the first female principal chief.[14] She was freely elected in 1987, and re-elected again in 1991 in a landslide victory, collecting 83% of the vote.[15] In 1995, Mankiller chose not to run again for Chief largely due to health problems.
Mankiller faced many obstacles during her tenure in office. At the time she became chief, the Cherokee Nation was male-dominated. Such a structure contrasted with the traditional Cherokee culture and value system, which instead emphasized a balance between the two genders. Over the course of her three terms, Mankiller would make great strides to bring back that balance and reinvigorate the Cherokee Nation through community-development projects where men and women work collectively for the common good,based on the Bureau of Indian Affairs “Self Help” programs first initiated by the United Keetoowah Band, and with the help of the Federal Governments Self-Determination monies. These project include establishing tribally owned businesses, such as horticultural operations and plants with government defense contracts, and improving infrastructure, such as providing running water to the community of Bell, Oklahoma and building a hydroelectric facility.[16]
Under the US Federal policy of Native American self-determination, Mankiller was able to improve federal-tribal negotiations, paving the way for today’s Government-to-Government relationship the Cherokee Nation has with the US Federal Government.[17]
Examples of progress included the founding of the Cherokee Nation Community Development Department, the revival of Sequoyah High School in Tahlequah, and a population increase of Cherokee Nation citizens from 55,000 to 156,000.
“Prior to my election,” says Mankiller, “young Cherokee girls would never have thought that they might grow up and become chief.”[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilma_Mankiller

10

murphy 04.06.10 at 2:56 pm

Native Americans are ahead of us in the Women Leaders Department as well.

what an inspiration. I used to just love to read her name. What a name! She made me want to be an Indian!

11

DancesWithPumas 04.06.10 at 3:37 pm

RIP Wilma Mankiller.

What a shock. I wasn’t that familar with her contributions except that she was a Chief. Her name always intrigued me, it just never ocurred to me to look it up. Thanks for the info.

RIP Chief Mankiller.

12

scarlet 04.06.10 at 4:37 pm

MoveOn.org founder challenging Brown

Peter Schurman, a founder and former executive director of MoveOn.org, announced Tuesday that he plans to challenge California Attorney General Jerry Brown in his state’s Democratic gubernatorial primary. “Our Democratic standard-bearer must be a true leader, take strong stands on the issues, and run a vigorous grass-roots campaign,” Schurman said in a statement announcing his candidacy. “With our state in crisis, and our party facing billions in corporate money this fall, we can’t settle for anything less.” Schurman led the liberal group from 2001 to 2005; Brown, a former two-term governor, announced his campaign early last month.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0410/35456.html#ixzz0kMHEeONp

13

scarlet 04.06.10 at 4:39 pm

HOW THE BIG BANKS ARE LOOTING MAIN STREET USA
04-06-2010 6:27 am – Matt Taibbi – Rolling Stone

This isn’t capitalism. It’s nomadic thievery.

http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_28717.php

14

vwade 04.06.10 at 5:13 pm

Hate to hear the news from my home state of West Virginia. Seems like they only get in the news if there is a disaster. Prayers and thoughts to the families of the miners.

15

normapapuma 04.06.10 at 7:12 pm

#14 With you.
The local newspaper trumpeted stories of three HCR celebrants-They think everything will be soooo much better now. No delays in coverage, no overcharging, and best of all, nobody will die anymore! (wow)
Worn out physically and mentally. No comment on the nerve-racking news from Iraq, Afghanistan, and Obamanation. Tomorrow’s another day.

16

normapapuma 04.06.10 at 7:19 pm

#15 Bad news for BO-Strong support for HCR only up from 13% to 16%. Big whoop.
http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2010/04/health-.html

17

DancesWithPumas 04.06.10 at 9:20 pm

Bingo! Having worked in a male dominated field for 25+ years (waay too long) I came to believe that men are homosexual, as well as homosocial… I just couldnt figure out the man-woman sex thing… the following comment comes very close to expaining it for me.

This comment is one of the many excellent comments in response to Twisty’s post on “Scum: Not the Real Enemy”, cited in Murphy’s post, which should not be missed. The comments are informative and generally awesome!!
http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2010/03/30/scum-not-the-real-enemy/

Kiuku
April 1, 2010 at 7:26 pm
I suspect that men are innately not attracted to female bodies. If there is anything innate at all in human males,it is fear and aversion of women. Men have to be indoctrinated with sex, or, like some parts of the world, it is concealed completely so they don’t know what they are getting into before they can’t get out of it. I suspect that men are homosexuals by nature, and that their system of hierarchy is simply sanitized sex. for human beings, sex is deeply psychological. They perform the act with women, in order to breed, but psychologically men are having sex with eachother. This is where “women are for breeding”mentality comes from. They hate women, but have managed to twist up their misognyny of women into their sex drive so that they can perform the act. They fear and loathe women’s bodies. Their sex drive is primed, and must continually be reinforced daily. The act of sex itself with women is ritualized misogyny. They get off on the psychological misogyny acted out in sex. Meanwhile they are making sexual love to eachother. They seriously literally have sex with eachother -through- women.

18

murphy 04.06.10 at 9:24 pm

a jackass gets slapped: David Shuster, who said Hillary was pimping out Chelsea, fired from MSNBC.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/business/media/07msnbc.html?hpw

good.

19

BillieJo 04.06.10 at 9:45 pm

murphy

a jackass gets slapped: David Shuster, who said Hillary was pimping out Chelsea, fired from MSNBC.
———–
Karma flings her whip again to avenge Hillary. Check.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, it feels so darn good.

I love construction Murph…it’s hard but is rewarding when finished…believe it or not, I HOPE you ENJOY it. :lol:

20

TexasTigress 04.06.10 at 9:54 pm

ugh . had to redo my password AGAIN …I think I really am banned or blocked or whatever happenes to trolls ..
Anyway just popped in to say hi
‘night
(can’t stand Schuster )

21

DancesWithPumas 04.06.10 at 9:57 pm

a jackass gets slapped: David Shuster, who said Hillary was pimping out Chelsea, fired from MSNBC.
—————–
WOOT!!!

22

DancesWithPumas 04.06.10 at 9:59 pm

Fired for testing with another network…
2 week suspension for the ‘pimping out Chelsea” comment.

Same ‘ol, same ‘ol. They got priorities, donchaknow.

23

wontbackdown 04.06.10 at 10:51 pm

TexasTigress 04.06.10 at 9:54 pm

ugh . had to redo my password AGAIN
—–
It’s “E” :D

24

Delle 04.07.10 at 3:22 am

This is such a well worded analogy:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/04/the_rape_of_america_1.html

Obama is an evil man!

25

Notyoursweetie 04.07.10 at 5:52 am

26

Dragonfly 04.07.10 at 6:58 am

scarlet 13

thank you for that link to the article about my former home, Birmingham, AL.

All the wall street banks should be considered white collar criminals and made to disgorge profits to pay for things like those multi-employer pension plans that are underfunded as a result of businesses becoming insolvent as well as people like Lisa Pack and other Jefferson County employees who were made to suffer as a result of the criminal conduct of county officials and those from the banks who were bribing them.

murphy

the stories about Phoebe Prince and Constance McMillan are two examples, in my mind, of continued misogyny affecting our girls. I agree with Eric, the student who commented on the release of the people accused of harming Phoebe – they should not have been released on bail.

As for Constance, ditto Zee’s comments. What an extraordinary young woman. I hope she and the ACLU are successful in the lawsuit. There is absolutely NO reason she should have been prohibited from bringing a date with two x chromosomes.

RIP Wilma Mankiller – a fictional book that may be of interest just generally because the Cherokee Nation is featured is Thirteen Moons by Charles Frazier. Really interesting and beautiful writing.

murphy – you home improvement maven – you are awesome!

Happy Wednesday PUMAs, we’re almost to Friday, and I for one am looking forward to it as my work week has so far been abysmal.

27

Dragonfly 04.07.10 at 7:07 am

Dances 17

I think the commenter has it about right, but that the idea does not apply to the various good guys we know.

I definitely think that dynamic is in play, and all of us who have been raped or abused know about it first hand.

The comment reminded me of Mary Daly’s Pure Lust, a fantastic work (as you know Dances ;-) ).

Hi, Texas Tigress! Good to see ya again.

28

Delle 04.07.10 at 7:34 am

29

murphy 04.07.10 at 8:16 am

hiya dragonfly! I just watched The Rescuers with Skipper and some neighbor kids the other night and was reminded of my favorite character, Evinrude the Dragonfly!

You are even better than him at helping people through rough spots — he’s the one who’s always pulling people out of the alligator’s jaws and stuff. ha! that reminds me of you!

30

murphy 04.07.10 at 8:18 am

thanks Delle. From your link:

“WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama’s advisers will remove religious terms such as “Islamic extremism” from the central document outlining the U.S. national security strategy and will use the rewritten document to emphasize that the United States does not view Muslim nations through the lens of terror, counterterrorism officials said.

The change is a significant shift in the National Security Strategy, a document that previously outlined the Bush Doctrine of preventative war and currently states: “The struggle against militant Islamic radicalism is the great ideological conflict of the early years of the 21st century.”

jackasses.

31

DancesWithPumas 04.07.10 at 8:31 am

Dragonfly 04.07.10 at 7:07 am
Dances 17
I think the commenter has it about right, but that the idea does not apply to the various good guys we know.
——————
I don’t support the value judgment on all men being repressed homosexuals… The only problem I have with it is the twisted result when society demands certain sexual behaviors from them. Read the comments at Twisty’s… One commenter posits that perhaps the straigh/gay ratio is in reality reversed… that only 10% are true heterosexuals while the rest are homosexual. The true hets thrown in to ensure the survival of the species.

versed

32

murphy 04.07.10 at 8:51 am

I like the article we read last year about the folly of trying to understand women’s sexuality through the limited, black and white male lens. While studies of measured arousal show that men are significantly more “fixed” in what arouses them (for gay men, there is little to none measured arousal when viewing naked women or hetero sex acts. The opposite for straight men — they are not aroused by viewing naked men or homosexual sex acts.) Whereas women were aroused by EVERYTHING — gay sex, straight sex, beach balls bouncing on the beach, horses running in the sunset, naked women, naked men, naked cows (I made that last one up).

An interesting example: Straight men were only mildly aroused when showed a photo of a woman in tight-fitting workout clothes doing a yoga pose. Straight women on the other hand, were very aroused. VERY. and that’s the straight women. In fact, the researchers could find no measurable differences between the sexual reactions of straight and lesbian women. Whereas the differences in reactions between straight and gay men was clear and strong.

Patriarchy ensures that we always use the “male model” for viewing everything, from women’s sexuality to architecture to literature history anthropology — EVERYTHING.

In a Western Civilization course I took a few years ago when I went back to college, we were learning about the importance of Petrarch, a 14th Century Italian poet who did more than anyone to “bring back” the stories and the glory of ancient rome and greece. The stories of Homer and the Greek playwrights, as well as the military and cultural imperialism and domination of Rome and Greece had been nearly forgotten by the time of the “Dark Ages” ( a phrase he coined).

ANYWAYS, while listening to the lecture about how important Petrarch was, it occurred to me that without him we wouldn;t have an understanding of “Western Civilization” as a trajectory of “progress” that started in ancient greece, moved to Rome, and then spread across Europe. So I made a comment/question to the professor, asking if then it was true that Petrarch “invented” the idea of Western Civilization — that he had actually kind of MADE IT UP — and that without him we wouldnt think of the history of France, say, as having a direct connection to the golden age of Athens in 400BC.

The professor looked at me as if I were CRAZY or just plain dumb. Huh?? he wanted to know — Western Civilization wasn’t INVENTED for crying out loud — it just IS.

Right, I thought. It just IS. There’s no “story” there — no editing or narrative intervention on the part of men like Petrarch and the popes and the kings and the generals.

Right.

33

murphy 04.07.10 at 8:57 am

oh and btw, TT!!

how can you even say that you could be banned?? Hp was right — NEVER!

Let me know in email the next time you have a prob logging in — it must be from your end.

Though now I know I can mess with your mind, maybe I;ll start changing your password to random letters from the alphabet…
:evil:

34

theamericanway 04.07.10 at 9:04 am

These guys are reading my mind:

Health care overhaul spawns mass confusion for public
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/04/06/91696/health-care-overhaul-spawns-mass.html

Last Thursday I called Congressman Chris Carney’s local office; an official sounding dick asked ‘how may I help you?’
And I said, you may help me by telling me where in HR3590 it says that I have the same hc as Chris gets. He said “You want me to search through 2700 pages?” I said “Absolutely.” He took my phone number. Have yet to hear back. My question was prompted by a TV ad for Chris which claims “Ordinary Pennsylvanians get access to same health benefits Congress gets.
So the question in my mind becomes: does ‘get access to’ = ‘have?’

So I sent a query to Chris using his gubbamint web form. I received back a form letter with many paragraphs touting how wunnerful the hc is and how brave Chris was to vote for it even though it was not popular. The one phrase addressing my specific question says: “All Americans will be able to have the same insurance choices enjoyed by Members of Congress and their families.” Again, does ‘will be able to have’ = get?

You can believe I’ve tried to get answers, but they are not forthcoming. These answers probably have not yet been written.

PS Murphy: How about a brief progress report on that back stairs project. Wishing you all the best. It is great painting weather if you’ve gotten to that stage. Great because most bugs are not yet out and about. :)

35

Dragonfly 04.07.10 at 9:05 am

murphy 29

((((murphy)))) that is very sweet of you to say.

32 – I loved reading about your question in West. Civ.

regarding arousal, that is fascinating and makes so much sense. Somewhat related is the first chapter of The Great Cosmic Mother, titled “The First Sex,” in which is discussed the biology supporting the conclusion that the male is rather new and female is the first sex as well as interesting stuff on a theory about how humanoids survived a certain era in prehistory by going into the ocean. can’t do it justice now, but the authors are Sjoo and Mor, and it is a fantastic book!

off to pull some clients out of alligators’ jaws . . .

36

Zee 04.07.10 at 9:05 am

“…the United States does not view Muslim nations through the lens of terror…”

Oh, great. And no one blames “Catholic extremists” for molesting children, no…they blame the entire church for protecting the molesters. (And rightly so, when it comes to the LEADERS.)

But entire Muslim NATIONS can have as their LAW the right to stone 13 year olds to death for reporting a RAPE, and that’s a-ok. OK to have as law, along with the spectators watching the men pummel a child with rocks, and the detailed duties, such as it must be a female nurse who digs the 13 yr old out of the pit to determine if she’s dead yet or needs more stoning.

Yeah, why should the US view that through any negative “lens.”

We should don the blood, I mean, rose-colored glasses instead.

37

DancesWithPumas 04.07.10 at 9:17 am

Yeah, why should the US view that through any negative “lens.”
————–
Zee, c’mon now, the muttonheaded are just doing their bit to ensure the survival of the patriarchy.

38

murphy 04.07.10 at 9:18 am

what an excellent analogy Zee- thats right — we dont blame Catholic extremists because it is emphatically NOT extremists who abuse children — it’s regular old garden variety priests, the kinds of men we all know and have interacted with.

See? that’s how we are blind– when something is so commonplace as to seem universal we lose the ability to focus on its actual form.

Right, and it has to be a woman nurse because ISLAMIC LAW dictates that women’s and girls’ bodies, even mutilated half dead gasping for breath bodies, can never be touched or seen by oh so precious men.

39

murphy 04.07.10 at 9:21 am

“the researchers could find no measurable differences between the sexual reactions of straight and lesbian women.”

which implies that either the researchers need to start asking some different questions and measuring some different aspects (very likely), or… none of the so-called experts know thing one about what they are talking.

or both.

40

DancesWithPumas 04.07.10 at 9:23 am

“the researchers could find no measurable differences between the sexual reactions of straight and lesbian women.”
——-
accidentally pasted that quote… was going to comment but realized I was off onto something else entirely.

41

murphy 04.07.10 at 9:26 am

“I was off onto something else entirely.”

You must be a woman. Researchers say that women are “flighty.”

42

Zee 04.07.10 at 9:27 am

A Boston professor, Dr. Gail Dines, who has a book coming out this summer called PORNLAND: how pornography has hijacked our sexuality, clues us in on the latest male sex toy. It talks! As she wryly notes: that’s a start….

http://www.beaconbroadside.com/broadside/pornland/

43

Zee 04.07.10 at 9:27 am

41 murphy, lmao!

44

DancesWithPumas 04.07.10 at 9:28 am

Flighty? Too bad they don’t recognize the “multi-dimensionality” of women.

45

Zee 04.07.10 at 9:29 am

“…when something is so commonplace as to seem universal we lose the ability to focus on its actual form..”

Yep…and I think that is happening with war, “collateral damage” and torture, too.

46

Notyoursweetie 04.07.10 at 9:31 am

47

Zee 04.07.10 at 9:32 am

I wish we had feminist activists who would break into that new sex doll factory and replace all the speech-chips with ones that say things like, “is that all you got?”

48

Zee 04.07.10 at 9:35 am

Another good one, NYS.

Sadly….I’m probably going to have to miss the Obot meeting tonight.

So curious, tho…

49

DancesWithPumas 04.07.10 at 9:47 am

Actually, I was thinking about something Freddie said about a woman she knows… how the woman was hating men so much that she though she might be a lesbian.
At the time I wanted to say something about that but didn’t.
There are so many shades of lesbianism, one size does not fit all.
There are lesbians who hate men and chose to be a lesbian as a default position. Then there are lesbians who love women… regardless of any thoughts or feelings towards men. I think it’s probably true that more heterosexual women dislike/hate men because they are sorta tied to them by way of their sexual orientation.

I know lesbianism is not limited to sexual orientation… even though that seems to be the way it is defined (by guess who). What seems to be overlooked is the emotional, spiritual, cultural, and historic aspects of lesbianism.

Not for nothing… just sayin’

50

DancesWithPumas 04.07.10 at 9:53 am

Zee 04.07.10 at 9:29 am
“…when something is so commonplace as to seem universal we lose the ability to focus on its actual form..”

Yep…and I think that is happening with war, “collateral damage” and torture, too.
—-
and misogyny, sexism, and the idea that women are “less than”

51

FLBarbara 04.07.10 at 10:28 am

The issue of the girl whose wanting to wear a tuxedo to her prom was just so horrible a thought that the prom was cancelled has me thinking Why not just stone her ?

A woman choosing to wear a tuxedo is unacceptable.
A woman forced to wear a burqua and live in an isolation chamber is acceptable.
A woman refusing to wear a burqua is stoned.
A woman refusing to wear a gown should suffer the same consequences. N0?

Or did she suffer a form of elimination from society by refusing to conform to “laws” ?

52

DancesWithPumas 04.07.10 at 11:44 am

I don’t know why Constance asked for permission to wear a tux…
No one else asks for permission to wear whatever they chose to wear to a prom.

People seem to be entertained when men dress in women’s clothing… Starting with Milton Berle in the 1950s. I the difference is men are in positions of power in patriarchy and stepping down to impersonate a lower status is funny but a second class citizen impersonating males is a threat akin to pulling back the curtain on the absurdity of the social construct. Something like that…

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