First Snow

Uppity Woman has some great videos this morning (see Murphy’s link).

NEW YORK (Reuters) – Demonstrators angered by the Obama administration’s move to prosecute the self-professed mastermind of the September 11 attacks in civilian court on U.S. soil called on Saturday for the trial to be moved to a military tribunal.

U.S.

More than 1,000 people braved cold and rain to rally outside the Manhattan federal courthouse where Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four others will be tried.

Speakers blasted U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder for his decision to hold the trials in a court just blocks from the World Trade Center site, where thousands of people were killed in the 2001 attacks with hijacked planes.

Demonstrators — among them family members of victims and rescuers– held U.S. flags and signs reading “no constitutional rights for enemy combatants,” and booed and jeered as speakers invoked Holder’s name and that of President Barack Obama.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5B41K820091205?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

Juliette 12.06.09 at 1:19 am I saw- on the CNN ticker, something that said that the democratic party is considering changing the way they nominate their presidential candidate.
____________________
Maybe they will consider “changing” the nomination to actually nominating the candiate who wins the nomination.

Clinton, Hillary Rodham 17,857,501  48.04%

Obama, Barack Hussein 17,584,692  47.31%

Then again maybe they won’t.

http://www.whatonearthcatalog.com/whatonearth/Item_Obama-Chia-Head-of-State_CC8462_ps_srm.html

for the next yankee swap..

I have just ordered my Obama Chia head

I am hoping it’s pot growing out of his head!!

You can’t have Hope without the Dope.

And now for something a bit different ..

my sunday show INTERNET NEIGHBORHOOD RADIO ( with corniness warning ) as in If you are on the internet you are inthe neighborhood
http://audio.cygnusradio.com:8000/cyg1_hi.m3u

where we give the male indie artists xsome air time too, and have lots of fun … tune in while your posting here

Sorry I forgot to post the link #7, I love posting this as it drives the Obots nuts.

Popular Vote
Clinton, Hillary Rodham 17,857,501  48.04%

Obama, Barack Hussein 17,584,692  47.31%

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/D.phtml

So maybe the Democratic party has finally figured out that unless the party nominee has won the endorsement of the only people who will matter WE the people, they will either lose the national election or if they win the national they will quickly lose the support of those who “vote party” in a National election as in the case of Obama who is at
-14 in approval ratings.

We voted for the best candidate and the best candidate won the primary.and she is enjoying huge approval ratings..

MrIwasselected is at -14.and dropping.
BWAhahahahahaha

http://www.cphpost.dk/climate/91-climate/47679-christmas-trees-banned-for-climate-summit.html

NO Christmas trees allowed near the global warming summit
bah humbug
the 2009 version of scrooge, i say nobody gives them any gifts either, especially united states taxpayers

murphy 12.06.09 at 12:17 pm

NICE link pers #12, thanks!

what?
you didn’t like #10??

a little poem

The emperor is goin to the hill at 2
to tell those dems if they dont get in line
there will be no invites for you
No more helping you win your seats in 2010
Ive got to make history, can i get an amen
So get ready girls and boys
Or Obama want let you play with his toys
So you better be good, you better not pout
Forget the American people, it is ME that it’s all about.

Found this little interestin thing on the internet about the A.C.L.U. There the group trying to take GOD out of everything so people every where is sending them a CHRISTMAS CARD just to remind them.
———————-
I fully support removing “god” from everything that doesnt relate directly to religious institutions.

Hey Murphy,
What happened to my post?

All im interesting in is removing liars, cheats and thieves out of dc

backwoodspuma 12.06.09 at 2:11 pm
Hey Murphy,
What happened to my post?
———————-
Comments by new members / new blog names go into Moderation until approved. Your comment was released. See #20

backwoodspuma
I am sending ACLU a card. Thanks for the info.

Separation of church and State in a democracy means that while all religions have their “rules and “laws” example the Catholic church requires Catholics to attend mass on Sunday but the state does not issue a “law” that requires All citizens to attend mass, as in the Jewish faith the Sabbath is a day where you can not spend money again the state does not require All citizens to not spend money. The state also does not punish its Catholic citizens for not going to mass on Sunday and its Jewish citizens for spending money on Sabbath.

That is where Islam differs dangerously the Religious beliefs are not separated by the State/ government.
Shar’ia Law is an enforcement of religious law on
all people.

33
stoney42 12.06.09 at 2:57 pm
________________________________________________________________
Your very welcome stoney42

I can’t believe Roland Moonface Martin of CNN is actually not kissing the ground that Obama walks on these days. He actually thinks that the era of invoking the Bush name is like looking to the past because perhaps you don’t have anything good to say about the current administration …I do believe it is one of the singular most reasonable thing he has written that I could read without calling him the most vile name… Read it here: http://campbellbrown.blogs.cnn.com/2009/12/05/the-era-of-blame-bush-for-obama-is-over/

Goofsmom, my thoughts regarding separation of church and state go further , we do not even fund any religious organisation for any reason , not even faith based initiatives .
First of all they do not pay taxes, which is a type of funding, secondly , which ever churches receive the funding are singled out as “approved” by the state. This blurs the line and can and does lead to state approved religions, and laws which reflect the religious beliefs of those approved churches. This is more than a slippery slope , but is a dangerous avalanche of overreaching which could lead to losses of freedom for the people whose religions are not “approved” .

Swannie,

Interesting point on not taxing churches being a form of “funding”. Do other countries tax churches?

My thoughts on separating church and state is the same fear of the slippery slope. If we allow any church to dictate national policy (abortion), then other religions can demand the same consideration… eg Islam and the Burka.

I am very fierce on this issue of separation of church and state… I think if you preach from the pulpit , pay the damn taxes …. period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GET YOUR RELIGION OUT OF MY GOVERNMENT , I dont care whose it is …

Swannie,

Imagine how much money would go toward paying off the deficit… Who came up with the idea not to tax churches??

If we did tax churches the mosques would probably all close up!!

Yay Pers! I like the way you think. The reality page lives!

Interesting article at Rasmussen: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/holidays/november_2009/most_americans_prefer_merry_christmas_to_happy_holidays

Yeah, well, the Jehovah’s Witnesses have been demanding that for years. By the way each state must be different cause schools here in North Carolina can have christmas parties
matter of fact Santa visits classrooms in most elementary schools and the students who do not wish to participate are allowed to be legally abscent or the school finds another activity for them. Dont you think that the state is imposing itself into religion when they dont allow certain things?
People have just gone overboard with their demands and it’s getting all messed up just like taking certain discipline out of schools, and now look at the schools teachers can hardly teach.

The government is not minding the ship when they allow Rev Wrights to blast his politics from his pulpit, he should have lost his tax exempt long ago as well as farahkan and any other preacher of any religion that uses their pulpit for political agendas. As far as that’s concerned all those bingo games owned by some churches should get the hell taxed out of em, that’s got nothing to do with religion, it’s a damned bingo game people.

Sarah Palin’s Gridiron Club speech, as posted on Gretawire from an e-mail Greta received from a colleague. Great (funny/savvy/tongue-in-cheek) speech.

http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/gov-palin-going-funny-rogue/

Excerpt from the end of the speech:
“I know this can be a long night, and as I understand it, we’re going to break with a Gridiron tradition. Normally, the Democrat speaker would deliver a speech after me. But instead, John McCain’s campaign staff asked if they could use that time for a rebuttal.

A lot has been made of a few campaign relationships. The closeness. The warm fuzzy feelings. John and I both agree all those staffers should just move past it. It’s history. Let’s just say, if I ever need a bald campaign manager, it appears all I’m left with is James Carville. I don’t want to say that I’ve burned a bridge, but I know all about cancelling a bridge to nowhere.

That Democrat speaker I referred to is, of course, the one-and-only Barney Frank. And I’m the controversial one?

Barney, the nation owes you and the government a debt. A huge, historic, unbelievable debt. But, it’s good to be here with you, Mr. Chairman. Because by Chairman, I don’t just mean the House Financial Services Committee. As far as I can tell, Barney’s also the Chair of AIG, CITI, and the Bank of America.

I don’t want to say that the U.S. Government is taking over the role of the private sector, but I have to admit, on the flight here, thumbing through a magazine and looking at a photo of
President Obama with the President of China, the person next to me pointed at it and said, “Hu’s a communist.” I thought they were asking a question.

Still, when I see this administration in action, I can’t help think of what might have been. I could be the Vice President overseeing the signing of bailout checks. And Joe Biden would be on the road, selling his new book, Going Rogaine.”

Well, if some get their wishes here, it will send a message to islams that they would love to hear, this is what they have been waiting for. be careful what you wish for.

what about groups that want to remove “in god we trust” from our currency and “under god” from the pledge of allegiance?
maybe they’d like to replace the word “god” with “allah?”
***********************************
You may not grasp the concept that religion and government don’t mix well, but don’t imply that whoever wants to remove Christian symbols from our secular lives just want to substitute another religion in it’s place.

sistermoon,

?? I don’t understand your point… I’m saying to protect our freedoms, no religion including Islam must be allowed to dictate policy or have any appearance of cultural influence.

I see this as the fastest and quickest way to shut them down.

“one nation under god” was added to the ledge of allegiance in 1956 by Eisenhower

Goofsmom

The framers of our Constitution, even though they were of various religions, as a starting point agreed it would be with the, if you will, all encompassing Christian belief that “All men are created equal” (I know)therefore all are entitled to the same rights and protection under the constitution.
It is where “America is a Christian nation” comes from, that our fonders based the Constitution of the US on the Christian belief that all men are created equal therefore ALL are entitled to the same rights and protections.
In”God we trust” was intended as We (they) trust that God did indeed create all men equal and therefore based upon that belief ALL are entitled to the same equal rights.

It was not intended to mean anyones God in particular, a Jewish God, Quaker, Protest ant, Catholic etc.

So are we a Christian Nation is maybe the question? Obama says NO.
but who does not believe that all men and women were created equal and are entitled to equal rights? I have thought about his statement a lot.
Is it Jews? Protestants? NO.
Even Atheists and Agnostics should agree with that belief?

Anyway maybe the way to go is with the ERA to ensure that women are included? So when those who don’t believe in ALL are created equal we can point it out to them.

Islam is a fight club.

BBL

The founding fathers wanted to declare this nation a Protestant nation. Lobbying against that rendered the compromise that states could proclaim their state’s religion… Maryland was Catlick, Penn was Quaker, etc.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/another_failed_presidency.html

for christ’s sake, pun intended.
when did santa become a “religious symbol??”

(and reindeer, and candy canes, and stars…the PC police are way out of control..)

when did any of the above become “offensive” to children’s sensibilities?

which American traditions will be attacked next?
when we have a generic society that has abandoned all to satisfy a few there will be a blank slate and it all will start again.

Crescents, anyone??

(we must “respect” Islam-our president says so!)

and yes,the very same groups fighting to eradicate all christian symbols from Italian classrooms and build minarets in idyllic towns in Switzerland would love very much to replace christian symbols in america with symbols of their own. they are actually quite honest about it, if only people would listen.

why is there Islamic art all over Boston mass transit stations?
why are NY mosques suing the city and trying to have restaurant liquor licenses taken away because they are ‘too close” to mosques?

Personally, I support santa.
and if I want to say merry christmas to someone I will.
if they are offended, tough shit.

BigCatLover 12.06.09 at 3:57 pm

what about groups that want to remove “in god we trust” from our currency and “under god” from the pledge of allegiance?
maybe they’d like to replace the word “god” with “allah?”

You may not grasp the concept that religion and government don’t mix well, but don’t imply that whoever wants to remove Christian symbols from our secular lives just want to substitute another religion in it’s place.

______________________________________________
I may not “grasp the concept?”

And excuse me, but I’m not “implying” anything.
More like insisting, for the slower among us, based on factual evidence all around us, that our culture is being Islamasized.
With the help of our president, our justice department, higher ups in the defense department, and our homeland security director.
Jihad is everywhere. Look at the mosque sprawl, the KSM trial, the attempts at squashing free speech both here and abroad. The tiptoeing around all things Muslim.

Don’t get me started.

If you don’t think Christians will get trampled on while Islam gets special treatment you are delusional.
And when the political winds shift I will stand with the Christians, amen.

Merry Christmas!
and if “under god” keeps the commies away I’ll say the pledge allegiance too

night CJ!

If you open your ears and eyes, there are many nice American folks among us who do not believe in Catlicks or Christians and what have you NOT because they have anything to do with Islam. They are atheists or what have you’s that don’t think the rest of us should have the priviledge of having any mention of God and Christianity verbage in our constitution, in our air waves, on our hills and dales…when they don’t believe in it. There is a huge cross on a hilltop in San Diego that is always under controversy. They liberal politically correct die hards want it taken down and it is an ongoing thing.

FL Barbara…I was just making fun of Dances.. She calls Catholics = Catlicks.
She posted something further up thread today…

Here is a handy pocket guide by the WWF on the Climate Change Treaty :

http://assets.panda.org/downloads/wwf_climate_deal_1.pdf

From the guide:
“Unfortunately, many countries are continuing to build power stations which burn coal – one of the most polluting ways to generate electricity. But there
is a key difference between China, India and developing nations on the one side and the rich nations on the other: the former still have much lower per capita emissions and much less wealth whereas the latter have been polluting the atmosphere for decades. The problem lies with rich countries such as the United States of America and Germany, who stick with coal-power projects when they have many other options.”

“To make economics and ecology into enemies is to doom both. But to reconcile them is to open up the possibility of a richer, more sustainable, more profitable and fairer world.”

“Industrialized countries, which are responsible for the majority of the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, must find the money to green their own economies. But they are also liable, at the court of world opinion and fairness, for funding many of the emissions reduction plans and adaptation requirements of the “victim” countries – those hit hardest by a problem that they have no responsibility for creating. A study by the consultants McKinsey identified the potential for reducing global emissions by 35 per cent from 1990 levels by 2030 (or 70 per cent below a likely business-as-usual trajectory). Notwithstanding the cost of necessary lifestyle changes and some more expensive technologies, the total worldwide cost for most of the technologies and actions investigated would be in the region of 200-350 billion annually for the next two decades. This annual figure is less than 1 per cent of global gross domestic product (GDP) in 2030. Something like half of it would be invested in developing countries.”

Coca-Cola spearheads -world climate tax

100 companies push ’16 days left to seal deal’ on $10 trillion treaty

Coca-Cola is spearheading a coalition of more than 100 companies pushing a United Nations climate treaty to bind the U.S. to cap-and-trade emissions regulation, commit the world’s wealthiest nations to a potential $10 trillion in foreign aid and, possibly, form a proposed international “super-grid” for regulating and distributing electric power worldwide.

Hopenhagen

http://www.thecoca-colacompany.com/hopenhagen/index.html

persephone 12.06.09 at 6:27 pm

“If you don’t think Christians will get trampled on while Islam gets special treatment you are delusional. And when the political winds shift I will stand with the Christians, amen. Merry Christmas! and if “under god” keeps the commies away I’ll say the pledge allegiance too”
—–
Ditto, Pers! I would add, if “under god” also keeps the Islamists away, then it should be left in the pledge of allegiance and I’ll say it five times a day facing the biggest American flags I can find and fly 24/7! And, like FLBarbara, I’m looking at Christmas lights, decorating a Christmas tree, writing Christmas cards and wrapping Christmas gifts while I listen to Christmas music! Don’t know what ‘actual’ date Jesus was born, but it’s celebrated on Dec. 25, and that’s when I, and many others like me, celebrate it around the world. Jesus was an actual prophet, whose life and teachings have been well documented. He taught acceptance, compassion, equality, faith in a higher power, kindness, love of neighbor, love of self, love of a higher power, patience, peace, respect for one another, tolerance. There is not one indication I know of where Jesus ever once taught or even hinted at hatred, violence or murder for any reason whatever. (Though he did become angry with the ‘money changers’ in the temple and with the hypocritical pharisees, he never advocated their hatred or murder.) There is not one indication I know of where Jesus ever once taught or even hinted at sexism and misogyny. In fact, he was the one who spoke up for Mary Magdalene when she was about to be punished as a harlot: “Let the one who is without sin cast the first stone.” Jesus consistently spoke up with admiration, compassion, kindness, love and respect for all women, which was a radical departure from the norm for the time in which he lived. He brought the light of enlightenment into a dark, barbaric world and time. Jesus’ birth is celebrated at the darkest time of the year. To me, that’s appropriate, because Jesus brought into the world the spirit of enlightenment and knowledge, like a bright light illuminating and helping dispel the darkness of barbarianism and ignorance. That’s what I celebrate at Christmas — enlightenment and light, serene peace, gentle quiet wonder, gifts bestowed out of selfless, unconditional love.

That’s what I believe, and I’m stickin’ to it. Others may believe as they choose. But I will never kowtow to a 7th century dogmatic, fascist belief system whose core tenets dictate barbarism and the abject subjugation of girls and women.

C’mon, you know, from Boys’ Town, with Bing Crosby(?)
“I’m Catlick, Fodda.”

Saying Merry Christmas is my right, and I don’t think I lose those rights when I enter a school building or a government office. Some extremists would deny teachers freedom of speech and religion. However, as public (government) employees we are rightfully forbidden from preaching, prostelyzing (spell check!) in school.

Oh and thanks for calling me first. I am honored,

Hmm must be here alone.

Lol finally hiya Norma.

Yep, snowtigerredux, you’d better hide your furry butt behind the biggest rock you can find

Here on a more serious note.
First the climategate emails, now another ‘mistake’? This was reported by the BBC yesterday:

[Himalayan glaciers melting deadline 'a mistake'
By Pallava Bagla in Delhi

The UN panel on climate change warning that Himalayan glaciers could melt to a fifth of current levels by 2035 is wildly inaccurate, an academic says.

J Graham Cogley, a professor at Ontario Trent University, says he believes the UN authors got the date from an earlier report wrong by more than 300 years.

He is astonished they "misread 2350 as 2035". The authors deny the claims. ]

snip …….
Read the rest at :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8387737.stm

The ‘authors’ are the ten members of the IPCC panel (UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) who won the Nobel prize along with Gore in 2007. I am a scientist and I am becoming a sceptic – at least there is sufficient contradictory info out there to warrant another look at the science. Perhaps while BO is over in Norway collecting his own prize he should take back the Gore/IPCC medals.

I remeber back in grade school we were told of “global cooling”. A new ice age. I was gullible enough to swallow that back then. Used to walk around with this card i my pocket where you would look at the exhaust coming from a car and match the color to see how bad the pollution was. Had a number on it to call when it hit illeagal levels.
I always knew this “global warming” was just so much bs.

Well snowtiger I think the jury may still be out on this one but just cannot stand the apparent manipulation of data for political gains. I can remember driving across the Golden Gate bridge behind a bus whose exhaust was so thick that I could hardly read the huge advertisement for something environmental beneath. Wish I’d had a camera handy

Dances
C’mon, you know, from Boys’ Town, with Bing Crosby(?)“I’m Catlick, Fodda.”
___________________

LMAO no I never saw that but I will make a point to see it now.

The Fodda of my church called which means that another women has been abused and no matter how hard I or my church preaches love and respect for all life tonight once again a monster doesn’t believe it. This season is the most violent season for violence against women. I guess they haven’t gotten the memo.

Women you all amaze me
((((CJK))))
Sweet dreams and blessings

RememberNovember 12.06.09 at 9:39 pm

Well snowtiger I think the jury may still be out on this one but just cannot stand the apparent manipulation of data for political gains. I can remember driving across the Golden Gate bridge behind a bus whose exhaust was so thick that I could hardly read the huge advertisement for something environmental beneath. Wish I’d had a camera handy
================================================================
OH I am all for reducing pollution. Recycling clean energy and research in to said ideas. It has become clear to me however that the whole global warming bullshit is designed to expand government power and corporate wealth. GE stands to make billions if ” green technology” becomes mandated.
Which is why they backed obmubles. As we all know GE owns nbc and its poppet msnbc.

#95 Yup-1975 all over again. Check out the article in Newsweek 1975 about the catastrophic cooling!

http://www.denisdutton.com/cooling_world.htm

The Obama administration has shocked many in the civil liberties community with the tacit endorsement of limitations of free speech in the United Nations. We have been following the international trend (here and here and here and here) to criminalize criticism of religions, including this prior column. The Administration has joined the UN Human Rights Council and has agreed to create a “new” standard balancing speech and respect for religion. These new standards are merely thinly disguised blasphemy laws that are spreading throughout the world, including the West.

http://jonathanturley.org/2009/10/06/blasphemy-american-style-obama-administration-supports-resolution-on-limiting-free-speech-to-bar-criticism-of-religion/

Okay, I’m dropping the subject. Seems this issue is something people would rather think of as an attack on their beliefs.

I celebrate Christmas and wish people a “Merry Christmas” I have not suggested that any person can or can not do that. I do not hate Christmas.

My point was missed entirely. BBL

CJK #81

Beautifully expressed, and you have every reason to be proud of your Christian faith.
This Obama cult mentality would not have stood a chance if our nation had not become so anti-Christian of late. Conservative Christian women have displayed more courage and tenacity in standing up to Obama’s Shari-ah loving thugocracy. Perhaps it’s the respect and empowerment of women that Jesus brought to the world that gives them that courage. What ever it is, I would surely trust those “right wing, left wing, whatever wing, Christians” to keep Mohammed’s twisted excuse for a religion (actually a polical system), the hell out of my country and hopefully out of the whole Western world before I would trust any Mao loving secularist (you know, the kind that Obama loves to have in his administration).

Merry Christmas CJK!

King Abdullah and the Annointed One-high and mighty. Americans will NOT give up their free speech-EVUH!
Going to get some rest.
Good night pumas!

Night Norma,

Snowtiger

I agree, with your statement and would add that Christian people are absolutely the most free people in the world.
I doubt that the Buddists in Thailand will be getting any help from the communists in China or Russia. I was refering to the Western World in my comments. I have no negative feelings about any other so called religion other than Islam; mainly because I don’t know enough about religions out side of Jedeo, Christian and Islamic-if you can call it a religion.
I don’t particulary like the anti-Christian sentiment that often dominates this blog; didn’t really appreciate the final paragraph of Murphy’s post: “to deliver a Damn Messiah to the people more effectively than Mary, Joseph…..”, but my faith is one of tolerance and forgiveness. And every anti Christian, so called work of art that I am forsed to support with my tax dollars only suceeds in proving that Christianity is a great and tolerant religion and that free thinkers are safe to express themselves when they live among a majority of Christians.

Juliette,

#115 – If there is to be true forgiveness and tolerance, as you quoted, then one would be led to the conclusion that a person would also have to be tolerant of Islam and forgive the Muslims.

That is very saintly of you to be so tolerant of others.

BBL – off to make dinner

snowtiger

Thanks for your responce. I LOVED your nun joke!

I think that Christianity started out as a very true religion but was high jacked during periods throughout it’s history, mostly by Royal Families who wished to elevate themselves to God like figures (kind of like Obama and his World Religion.)
I believe in seperation of CHURCH and state but understand that without a powerful institution such as the Catholic Church and other Christian Churches, Christian’s freedom of religion would have vanished long ago. It’s just the reality of the world we live in.
One thing that we need to remember is that the vast majority of Muslim people had absolutely no choice but to be Muslim.
I wonder how many Muslims there would be in the world if they were all free to choose, but unfortunately Islam does not allow free will. It is a brutal political system. People should understand that and not be afraid to oppose Islam.
During the cold war America was not bond by this political correctness, and was able to call communism the enemy.
As we are now committing more troops to fight the Taliban and Al Qaeda (the enforsers of Islam), in Afghanistan, America should be allowed to at least say we are at war with Shari-ah.
But fat chance while O’Burka is in the white House.
At the same time that young Americans are being asked to risk life and limb to fight these evil forses, our leaders are selling out America’s sovernty to their Saudi financiers who will spread their Shari-ah throughout this country while laughing their asses off at the PC libtards who are making it so damn easy for them.

Taliban, Shmaliban- it’s Islam that’s the problem.

goofsmom #115

I think it is more than apparent that Christians throughout the world have been forgiving and tolerate of Muslims. My God, we are practically handing over the western world to them on a silver platter. Muslims enjoy far more freedom in countries with Christian majorities than they do in Muslim countries. The Catholic Church even helped to pay for the giant Mosque in Rome.
But there comes a time, goofs when we must think about our survival, and if you don’t think that time has arrived, I don’t think your paying close enough attention. If Islam was not determined to eliminate the Infidels of the world things would be differnet. I forgive Muslims because I know that most of them had no choice but to accept this oppresive political system. I have had very close personal realtions with Muslims and have spent time among them in their countries. It is possible to forgive while demanding justice.
I strongly believe that the people who have suffered most at the hand of Islam are the Muslims themselves. They have wasted their most valuable natural resourse- that is their women and have kept themselves in the dark ages by enforsing a political system that restricts every kind of freedom.

It was Switzerland that recently banned the construction of minirets, goofs. I truely dobt that anyone here at PUMA wants a religious war, but I think that our freedom of religion is at risk along with all other religions outside of Islam if America and Europe allow and welcome Shari-ah to become part of their judicial systems.
What ever the countries in Europe are calling themselves these days; from Christain Democrat to Secular Socialist, you cannot ignore the major contribution that Christianity has made to European culture. It is everywhere, in the architecture, art, music and social behavior. It is something I love very much about Europe and the US. America could easily become a Secular Socialist country if the majority of Americans wanted it that way. But they do not. That is what democracy is about.
I think we have to agree to disagree on Christianity.
I have many agnostic friends who I love dearly. Their opinions converge and diverge with mine on issues from abortion to gay marriage and even the Terry Shivo case. This is what you have in a free democratic society. Democracy thrives among Christian populations and populations that have a strong Christian histroy. That has been my observation of the world and that is why I remain a strong supporter of Christianity. I am not trying to push it on anyone here at Puma. But I and others here are all to often put in the position of having to defend our Christian faith. It just seems a little silly to me.

Goofs, Islam IS oppressive. The very core of the belief system is oppressive. There is no separation of church and state. The state — Islam/Sharia — controls every aspect of an individual’s life, both public and private. There is no freedom of choice. There is no freedom of choice whether to believe or not believe in Allah. There is no such thing as atheism or agnosticism. Under Islam, all must worship Allah, and must believe in and follow the words of Mohammed in the Koran and other writings, as interpreted by the despotic clerics. The very core of the belief system is world domination by Islam and destruction of all other belief systems by any means necessary — cheating, lying, stealing, rape, honor killings, murder, suicide bombings, etc., etc. — because it is all in the interest of destroying the ‘infidels’ who do not believe in Allah and the words of Muhammed. The reason there is no Muslim outcry against such murderous acts as the Ft. Hood shootings is because they believe that it was ‘Allah’s will’ for Lt. Hasan to do what he did. There is no questioning ‘Allah’s will’ under Islam. To me, a true, enlightened religion seeks peaceful co-existence. That cannot be said of Islam, which is why I do not consider Islam to be a religion but rather a dogmatic fascist belief system. Islam teaches hatred of and violence against those who differ with its beliefs, and specifically teach the oppression and subjugation of girls and women. That is not incidental. It is central to this belief system. Also under Islam, LGBTs are considered criminals, and subject to execution as criminals.

Juliette and CJK,

Of course typo’s are forgiven, I said the wrong country…

I think we have a couple of misunderstandings.

I never said I wasn’t a Christian.

I agree that Radical Islamic beliefs are horrific and hatefilled.

IMHO, a democratic republic such as the US can exist without a national religion. Our religious freedoms exist in the US because of past religious repressions that occured. In the 1600′s there was a township that wouldn’t allow anyone to live there unless they were members of the Dutch Reform Church.

Christianity did not create the US. People created the US, some of whom were Christians.

Our beliefs are our own. When the subject comes up, it is not to attack your or any other Pumas personal religious belief.

Goofs, I certainly do not want the United States to have a ‘national religion.’ That is the central problem with Islam — it not only insists that its followers see it as a ‘national religion,’ but in fact, a ‘world religion,’ in fact ‘the one and only religion.’ Islam does not recognize the right of any other religion or belief system to exist alongside Islam. It’s central goal is world domination and destruction of all other non-Islamic belief systems.
Under Islam, there is no difference between ‘state’ and ‘church.’ They are one and the same — Islam. Those under its rule have no freedom to choose what to believe. They must believe in Islam, or else. That is not ‘radical Islam.’ That’s just Islam, period. That’s not Islam in one particular country. That’s Islam everywhere, including right here.

What created the United States was faith — Faith in the overall goodness of humankind, faith in equality under the law of all who seek to live together peacefully and responsibly regardless of differences, faith in hard work, faith in the community of humankind, faith in the bounty of this beautiful land known as America, faith that humankind’s yearning for individual freedom is the most powerful sustainer of a government of, by and for the people, and faith in a higher power.

In Islam there is not faith. There is only blind obedience to the state, which dictates not only how people will live and behave, but what they will believe.

Pearl Buck wrote: “None who have always been free can understand the terrible fascinating power of the hope of freedom to those who are not free.” We in America must not ever take our freedom for granted, or ever allow it be perverted or subverted by those who wish to destroy or subjugate us. We must be vigilant in upholding freedom as a beacon for those around the world who hope one day to also be free.

CJK #132

I agree with that description of Goofs.
It’s not so easy to discuss religion with most people. Goofs always keeps it civilized.

Yup, Juliette. Religion and politics are two subjects most people try to avoid. PUMAS bravely go where others dare not! Goofs is one of those who helps keep the conversations at least polite!

Good night CJK, and whoever else is still lurking.

I had always thought the term “Perfect Stranger” was appropriate because I don’t really like too many people and the very essence of them remaining ‘strangers’ makes them ‘perfect’. (to me anyway)
That was until yesterday – my only day off- when I woke up and went outside to find the girl’s beloved horse , “Bucky” had passed away during the night .
Everything was closed (Sunday) and I called everyone I knew and still could not find anyone with a backhoe to dig a horse sized plot .
I knew I couldn’t just leave him lying there because of all of the predators that would come at night , so I resigned myself to digging the hole myself out in the freezing rain .
Just then , a huge truck and trailer with a brand new , bright yellow beast of a digging machine started pulling up my drive.
A man , his wife , and 2 kids – none of which I had ever met before got out and said , “I’m so sorry for your loss , ma’am . Can we give you a hand ?”
I offered to pay them and they refused and told us to go inside and they would get “Bucky” laid to rest .
Those folks , who turned out to be the parents of friend’s of friend’s of the girls were “Perfect Strangers” .
AND NOW BACK TO THE NEWS..

Wow! how pretty! In NYC we only had a frozen rain!
But at least we’ve got tabloids
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2009/12/07/tabloids-and-the-news-4/

Good morning PUMAS!
Out of commission over the weekend and most of this week too.
Went to read my local paper this morning and start with this.
Give me a break!

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/education/story/EC662E93AA8E0EA986257685000FDEDE?OpenDocument

Remember when Sebelius said that the Health panel’s breast exam recommendations could be ignored and they “would have no effect on insurance companies, etc.”? Well, here’s proof that well, the government LIES, even as we see what’s happening. This is just another example of ‘government-run’ healthcare and if this current bill passes, this is our future.

California ends State subsidies for mammograms to low-income women under 50

http://nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_79a73640-3474-522d-9d79-806307f1d792.html

The eligibility age for state-subsidized breast cancer screening has been raised from 40 to 50 by the California Health and Human Services Agency, which will also temporarily stop enrollment in the breast cancer screening program.

Advocates for low-income women, whose health care the department helps pay for, say the cuts put a two-tier system in place that is based on money rather than medical standards.

The cuts will greatly harm the clinic’s mammogram program, said Natasha Riley, manager of Vista Community Clinic’s Breast Health Outreach and Education Program.

Woot!!
Raining in San Diego!! REAL rain… not that whispy mist that looks and feels like dust. REAL RAIN!!

#124

“As long as it stays christians against muslims we will be at risk…”

Agreed, goofs. The Handmaiden’s Tale was a cautionary tale about the very real threat from ANY patriarchal religion…which is almost all of them.

145 nikkismom

Good catch, thanks.

Zee. …..
wtf I am speechless. The fucking level of narcissism is un believable.

Make no mistake, The charges of racism will be coming now, fast and furious. Reid is piece of garbage.

Christmas contributes to global warming

In today’s Post-Standard, one reader says Christmas traditions do harm to our planet:

To the Editor:

I believe we should think about doing away with Christmas. Our planet is in big trouble, and giving up Christmas would help to save it in many ways.

Not having to do extra driving, looking for gifts, would save on gas and therefore on carbon dioxide emissions.

Millions of trees would not be cut down, allowing them to grow large and to eat up the carbon dioxide which contributes to global warming.

The land normally used for Christmas tree farms could be planted with fast-growing hardwood forests to suck up even more CO2.

No Christmas lights or decorations would mean fewer utilities would be used, therefore saving on our natural resources.

There wouldn’t be so much stuff to swell our already fast-expanding landfills.

I think people would be calmer, happier and less stressed if they didn’t have to deal with the holiday. Many who live alone or have no family ties get depressed around Christmastime. There are even increased numbers of suicides. Not celebrating Christmas would mean folks could save money and not go further into debt buying presents that the recipients didn’t even want or need.

Those wishing to celebrate Christ could have their religious and/or family get-togethers and remember Him for whom Christmas was named. It seems like we’ve gotten rather far away from that.

Mary Armstrong
Cazenovia
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/12/to_the_editor_save_the_earth_g.html

From a commenter:

This letter shows that “Green” is a new religion which ranks slightly below that of militant Islam on the wacky scale.

Dances – you have real rain (woot woot) and hundreds of miles north we have SNOW – couple inches. I know you folks back east probably think we are crazy getting excited about rain and snow. When I saw Murphy’s picture above I was thinking wistfully of a previous life in the midwest, never dreaming that i would awaken to this beautiful carpet of peace the next day. My 16 year old dog has never seen snow and she’s not too sure she likes it!

CJK, goofs, Juliette – that was a very interesting discussion that I missed in the wee small hours

Goofsmom
I tried to cover your back last night on the separation of church and state but got attacked too. keep trying if you have the strength. I don’t anymore. If there is going to be another ‘war on Christmas’ this year, I need to get armed so I’m going to put up my decorations today. BBL

RemNov
Where do you live (in Calif?) that your pets have never seen snow.

Hey BCL! The “War on Christmas” is a holiday tradition by now. Prepare to have your head bitten off if you say “Happy Holidays” instead. I expect it will escalate to bonfires of Bing Crosby 45s one of these years.

I hope you got your decorations up before you saw the OMessiah ornament, because that will demoralize the Xmas spirit faster than anything. Talk about separation of church and state! Please spare us images of the Lightbringer-in-Chief ruining Christmas for believers and freethinkers alike!!

(((((Zee))))))

I’ve read The Handmaidens Tale… very scary book!

As far as the “O” ornament. Maybe someone should sue re: the separation of Church and State. That would block selling that awful travisty!

BigCat,

Thanks… It’s that stubborn Scorpio in me that persists.

PS… Goofs has never seen snow either… Lots of CA doesn’t get snow. We mostly travel to the mountains to visit it. I’ve only seen it snow where I’ve lived twice and it was a dusting and only lasted maybe an hour or two.

I Love Pumas, they talk, they feel free to do so.
I love Christmas and went out and bought some fine decorations today. Almost bought a Cristmas cd today at the post office, think i will go buy it tomorrow.
I love women, they talk.
Speak their minds.
Like a friend of mine often says
There wouldnt be any men without women.
I love it!

BCL – she spent most of her life in Marin where we once had a hail storm that left a half inch of wet ice on the deck for a few minutes. I suppose we could have taken her to Tahoe to see the snow but never did. We are now a couple hundred miles NE – closer to Tahoe but did not expect snow here!! It is so beautiful.

Mmmmm, goofs, that homemade bread sounds wonderful …. I could hint to my hubby, who has also been known to make fantastic bread, but seeing as he has had double duty with me in bed with something flu-like I don’t think I should….

I love seeing personal pick-up trucks hauling snowmen back from the mountains… racing to get home before the creation melts. Cracks me up.

Dances,

Don’t forget the ones that come back from the mountains with the beds of the truck packed with snow…. So they can make a snowman on their front lawn… hehehe

Yep!! My phone does 6 days of weather… up to Saturday right now.
Rain break on Tuesday and Wednesday, then rain, rain rain. Can’t wait to go camping this weekend!!

Wouldn’t a person be embarrassed to be pictured on a Christmas ornament?

RemNov,

I had a friend that put their childs picture on a personalized ornament and gave copies out to everyone. Some people do their pets tooo…

Yes, Goofs I thought of that immediately I hit the submit button

I guess the one’s narcisistic persona got in the way of me being rational. Me bad

Dances,

Ahhhh… yep, peace and tranquillity…

US to regulate greenhouse gas emissions

The US government has declared that greenhouse gases threaten human health.

The move could allow the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to order cuts in emissions without the approval of Congress.

For more see:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8400323.stm

Zee 12.07.09 at 2:24 pm

Zee, if you believe neither of those posts at freeusnow has anything to do with the ‘war on Christmas’ or the separation of church and state, I’m doubtful that you read them. I absolutely believe in separation of church and state. The point is 1) Islam is not a ‘religion’ as we know ‘religions.’ It is a sociopolitical, dogmatic, fascist belief system bent on world domination and destruction of any other belief systems (including religions). That includes domination of the western world and us and our way of life, and destruction of any and all belief systems, including democracy and all other religions period as well as their celebrations, rituals, rites, or whatever you’d like to call them. 2) There is no separation of church and state under Islam. There is only Islam, and no one under its rule has any freedom of choice whatsoever. That means there’s no freedom to NOT believe in Islam either, so one cannot be an agnostic or atheist under Islam.

Why should this fascist belief system that has sworn to destroy us and our way of life be coddled and protected under the Constitution of our democracy while all other religions are forbidden any expression at all and sued in the event of their expression?

Gotta go.

RemNov,

LOL… glad ya caught that…

RemNov,

#194 – but, it’s the only thing “O” is good at… talking lots of empty words, making lots of empty promises and then letting a bunch of inexperienced boiz make his decisions for him… like what to say…

“O” is a figure head… bobble head.. whatever…

Snow must be weighing down the wires between here and MA – had a difficult time getting back in? Goofs must have a direct line – sorry for your troubles (((Murphy)))

Hey ho goofs …… if he’s just the figure head – it just blows me away that more of us never imagined that fellow Democrats were angling after such ‘profound’ changes in the US. Been hunting for that Howard Dean quote on campaigning – he was somewhere abroad I think and probably did not think it would ever be reported in the media – he should know better the power of the internet – I’ll keep looking.

Have not seen any of those bobble heads in back car windows with BO’s head bobbling away – hmmmmmm – going to take a rest – BBL – enjoy your wonderful bread and tell goofsdad he is wonderful ….

That was Ben Nelson talking on abortion Pfft!

All the servers that I have been on today (3 or 4) are having connectivity problems.

“Why should this fascist belief system that has sworn to destroy us and our way of life be coddled and protected under the Constitution of our democracy while all other religions are forbidden any expression at all and sued in the event of their expression?”

CJK, WHAT are you talking about? Your link went on and on about Islam requiring their members to pray five times a day. That’s THEIR problem. The discussion last night, as goofs repeated incessantly, was on separation of church and state. And everyone was going on and on about the mythical War of Christmas. What the Muslims force their own to do has nothing to do having schools say “happy holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas.” Sheesh.

For your imagined hysteria to be true that Islam is allowed to do whatever they want while school kids are forbidden to have baby Jesus mangers, schools would have to have all kids take breaks during Muslim prayer time.

Now, I COMPLETELY agree with you that we should NOT coddle Islam, and there are indeed examples, which include Muslim women forcing colleges like Harvard to give them privileged time at student gym pools, which is BULLSHIT, none of this has anything to do with public schools and separation of state and church on the federal level. Separation of Church and State should start with forcing Obama to close Bush’s faith-based office, which he expanded and put an antiabortion activist in charge of.

Dances,

Yep… I think the weather is hitting the servers…

I guess our little rain storm is going to turn into a blizzard for parts of the country… Lots of problems in other states…

I’m not much into talking about religion, think it’s a personal thing and I like for others to keep their beliefs to themselves.
I do like the spirit of Christmas:

- the time off work, staying up late and sleeping while the weather is bad
- the gift giving to loved ones (and admit the pros and cons of the cost and guilt that goes with it, besides all the marketing hype)
- making and eating homemade cookies and yummies
- seeing children sit on the perfect Santa’s lap
- spending more time with family and friends
- the smell of a fresh Christmas tree
- Carrol of the Bells by the Mormons
- the sight of children on Christmas eve and morning

Church and state need to stand apart, but I think Christmas is a good thing, even without mentioning the religious part of it.

My nickel’s worth and I’m sticking to it.

:::mumble grumble::: I meant to ditto what Zee was going to respond with before she responded but was called away and then forgot.
Belated: What Zee said.

I’m wondering how many correlations there are between the way Christians co-opted Pagan spiritual days and rites and the way Islam is encroaching on, what Christians see as, their rituals and holidays?

Just look up the history of holly alone. We associate it with xmas, but the holly has many ancient associations that have been lost, from spinning to marital accord. Even the echo of this holy and spiritual accord resonates with us. The symbols are remembered on a cellular level. Trees, bunnies, ghosts, all through the year and years…they are with us forever, whatever religious overtones are added on.

Oooo! Martha Coakley is raking in endorsements from Bill Clinton and Gloria Steinem. So much for Pelosi’s carrying water for the Obamacrat faction…election is tomorrow!!!

Zee…

#214 – Sorry, have to laugh… hehehe… equator people… does that make them more level headed and even keeled…

goofs, right now I feel if I were warm all the time, I’d be more even-keeled! Also, if I had a few more hours of daylight. But who knows? Maybe I would whine about all the insects and snakes!

http://www.politico.com/blogs/scorecard/0909/Linda_McMahon_running_against_Dodd.html

Did PUMAs see this? WWE CEO Linda McMahon is running against Dodd for Senator in CT. Just saying.

Senator Barbara Mikulski arguing against Ben Nelson’s abortion amendment – “let the men who get women pregnant buy the rider to get them an abortion – hey perhaps we’ll even give them a discount” – or words to that effect

She also mentioned earlier that in 8 States domestic violence is considered to be a pre-existing condition …

Barbara Boxer also gave a strong argument against the amendment – she brought up the ‘what if’ humiliation of men having to get viagra as an exception and for it being publicly accessible information

RemNov,

#221 – Glad the women Senators are not acting like potted plants. That was a good example Boxer gave…

Yep, Gillibrand just did her bit

Wish I could help make some calls for Martha but I don’t have a voice right now Just read that there will be 500,000 robo calls with a message from Bill Clinton … way to go Mr President! There is fear that will be a low turn out – weather?

OFF Topic…

Elin Nordegren, Woods’ wife finally moved out….

http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/12/07/2009-12-07_tiger_woods_wife_elin_nordegren_moves_out_after_reports_of_mistresses_according_.html
_________________________

The above article cites 7 mistresses….
___________________________

This article alledges 10 one of which is a porn star…

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/south/view.bg?articleid=1217330
______________________________

Unfreakingbelievable… B*stard.

Another good one.

Best Buy, this year, seems to be leading the charge in the War on Christmas. In Best Buy’s Thanksgiving ad, with the opportunity to greet the Christmas Season, they opted to instead to offer a Muslim greeting
“Happy Eid al-Adha.”

Thank God, it doesn’t say Merry Christmas

I wonder how Muslims will feel when we begin to X out Allahs name?

FL Barbara,

#233 – Ummmm…. I believe that did that because it was the begining of Eid.

The attached vid is from Best Buy showing all their holiday gift cards… Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanza, Happy Hanakah and Feliz Navidad.

They are trying to get everyone to buy there. Just being corportists. They aren’t declaring war on Christmas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PkZHBgO3pw

Sweet Dreams

Nighty-night FL Barbara… sweet puma dreams to you…

Goofsmom

Just saw your comment#274
Not trying to be difficult here, just looking at it a little differently.

Ohhhhh I am not trying to be difficult. I just posted something I thought would get a kick out of. No debate needed just for a kick.
Goofs are you a lawyer? God you sound like one LOL

Hey goofs

Let me ask you is not a button that says “One nation under God” which are the words of the pledge allegiance of the United States the same as wearing an American flag label pin. Its Patriotic not Religious? It is also not a “personal” conviction.
So we are banning patriotic symbols in the US?

As far as the freedom of speech, which I will fight for that right.
It is not absolute.

As you say as long as its not hate speech? What about to in site?

The ACLU just recently took the side of kids in school who wore T shirts that said “Islam is the devil”
They claim free speech and it was not hateful.
Nut it could insight in a public school where we should have separation of church and state. The front of their shirt were quotes from the church.

What do you think of that?

Did y’all already catch Colleen O’Connor’s latest political commentary in today’s San Diego News Network?

King Obama v. Queen Clinton– Check or Checkmate?

On Tuesday night, Clinton may win promotion of another pawn to a valuable seat in the U.S. Senate-and enhance her position on the political chess board.

If Clinton supporter and Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley wins, that will make the ninth score that Clinton has settled. And it will have happened in the state that the Kennedy family once ruled.

I’m disappointed in O’Connor’s careless phrasing regarding the Democrat primaries versus caucuses, and her disregard of which candidate really won the nomination– and why. But the article is still worth a read for any Pumas from CA to MA.

#246 Goofsmom
Thank you! Keep hate speech out of schools. I’d like to keep it out of everywhere-free speech is a fine line. I’m not a Muslim and I hate what Islam stands for, but innocents, children and benign worshippers should not be hurt by our well-intentioned outrage.

normapapuma,

#247… Thank you back. I agree with you.

I also hate that children are being used as walking billboards for company’s or ideals that they are too young and unworldly to understand completely.

#221 Rem Novem

Thanks for the reminders of why we need more women in office, not more REPUBLICAN MEN.

Excellent suggestions from these women. I wish they were more widely known.

But you should see some of the comments on so-called progressive sites about Martha vs the men running against her. You know, it’s the same old, same old. It’s not that she’s a woman…it’s that she’s a cold fish. Or bitch. Or emotional.

Well, I would like to see the men think up that bit about the men getting insurance to pay for their unwanted offspring, or the men having to jump thru hoops and make public if they need viagra to prop up their aging penises.

It has nothing to do with some magical new “third” party. Just get the women in there. Sheesh.

Zee,

Amen…. “You have to vote for her”

FLBarbara in #232:
“(Note to Freedom from religion……its freedom OF religion not FROM religion.”
(and)
Goofs da Bloglawyer in #246:
“For a couple of different reasons, the biggest one is the slippery slope. If the ACLU wins then an Islamic child could wear a tshirt that says Christians are the devil with quotes from the Koran on the front to school….I don’t think tshirts with any slogans, logo’s, etc. should be allowed on school grounds.”

Barbara and Goofs, I don’t know if I can keep up with either of you when the night is so cold and nobody’s pouring anything yet to warm our, umm, spirits.

My 2 copper pennies worth is that for any of us to enjoy freedom of religion, all of us must be able to assert our freedom FROM religion– whether freedom from one religion in particular, from theism in general, or especially from theocracy– which often feels like what this nation has been heading toward, piece by piece, in ways that can be subtle and under the radar.

I call it Theocratic Creep {pun intended}.

Here’s the part that will getcha: ironically, both the Christian-&-Koran shirts and the use of public money & property for Christmas are examples of it.

Goofs, you call it a slippery slope; I call it a Theocratic Creep. If we continue to allow religion in the government and in our schools, it will snowball into an avalanche. Then everybody loses. No woman can win under religious fundamentalism of a patriarchal deity conceived by men in their own blurred image, no matter if they’re Mormons, Mohammedans, Mennonites, Manicheans. Yeah, Mani’s cult was Male-Merely.

Social-Psyche,

Excellent and very true. Separate Church and State!

Zee- I love ya, but I do not know any Christians that use X-mas in lieu of Christmas. Yes, we know that X was once the symbol for Christ, but that was awhile ago. You insult us when you suggest that your knowledge, as obviously great as it is, is superior to ours. Peace, love, and happy alpha-mas and omega-mas to ya.

Honora, that article is from a Christian site, and if you want to keep drumming up a mythical war on Xmas, go ahead.

Happy Holidays and Xmas preceded the fake rightwing “War on Christmas” hysteria. Them’s the facts!

But if I understand FL Barb’s later post, she was just yanking a few chains.

#255 S-P, Amen! heh.

Social-Psyche, I loved all the comments after that article…even the one from the plaintive Obot who said Hillary was just another cog in the big Hope-mobile. Hahaha! The Hopium-huffers are hard-pressed to defend their OMessiah these days and now they’re reduced to claiming *Hillary* as an *Obama* good move. Because it was his only good move, and one he was forced to make….and tried to undercut later. But apparently, he was unsuccessful in shunting Hillary out.

You can really sense the chess game in Martha’s demeanor.

Um, no, Honora. You said I insult you by quoting the origins of Xmas as if it were “my” superior knowledge. It’s not mine. It was from a Christian site exhorting Christians not to get caught up in the fake hand-wringing over “Xmas.” FL Barb specifically and incorrectly said it was X-ing out Christ’s name. If you and all the Christians “you know” prefer to wail over a false story meant to drum up hysteria, I can’t stop you, but Xmas is not from Xing out Christ’s name. That’s a fact. Same as the fact that the solstice celebration is deeply rooted in human civilization and predates Christ and Christians. I’ve always celebrated Christmas as the pagan holiday it is. Lit-up trees are less Christian than the letter X! lol. I’m for everybody celebrating it under whatever name they want. But “Xmas” is not an insult, sorry.

And I love, love, love celebrating the prior claim on the reason for the season!
I don’t use Xmas as an insult…it’s just laziness because it’s easier to type than Christmas or solstice. But x is also a kiss, so maybe we should just call it Kissmis! (Hey, it beats Catlick!)

And FL Barb, just reread Social-Psyche’s comments on Theocratic Creep in #255 if you find me too brash to read, because S-P said it better than I could and I just want to say ditto.

“Freedom of religion not freedom from religion” may be funny (in the way “Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” is “funny”) but it’s an actual threat, and I couldn’t tell you were just joking around. I should’ve just said:
(hope I got the face right!)

FL Barb, we’re on the same page on the school front…only I am probably worse. A tee shirt nazi. I don’t think the kids should wear any “message” tees to school. I also think Home Depot can determine what their employees wear, only as posted upthread, it needs to be clearly stated and understood.

The “bible studies” site is just a section of a freelance site. I’m not really all that interested in the origins of the word Xmas, but I knew enough to know it’s not an insult, it’s not meant as an insult, and to say it’s an insult is provoking. If you’re not joking around, but making provocative statements and then whining about how they’re responded to, then, as I said, you’re free to get worked up about the fake War on Xmas, and I’m free to

But I still say we should call it Kissmas as a compromise!

FL Barbara,

#272 – Yep, lots of school fights happen now because of gang affiliations etc., which is why schools have some form of dress codes.

I like uniforms because it limits the distractions from learning. It becomes less about what label, logo, slogan, and/or fashion statement you want to make and more about studying. Couldn’t be simpler

Hey Murphy,

There ya are… glad to see ya…

Murphy,

Also on #276 – My reasoning is it socially classifies children… those that have parents who can afford the trendy popular clothes and those that don’t. To me that startes the social divide at a very young age.

You can’t resent or insult anyone for what they wear if they are all wearing the same thing.

omgoodness!

Popeye was a commie! Who knew? And he might’ve even launched the WAR ON XMAS!

http://tinyurl.com/yhqnr4w

Someone alert O’Reilly! The darn pagans were using military (cartoon) men to X-out the Christ in Christmas in 1936!!!!

Zee

I just figured out what you are talking about with the “Adam and steve” quote comparison..
Sorry but you’re misunderstanding
“The freedom of religion not freedom from religion” is not a funny quote.

Its meant as a correction to t
hose who misquote the constitution by saying their rights give them Freedom FROM religion. No your rights give you freedom OF religion, meaning we all have the right to practice our religion,
Do you understand now?
Its Not a quote its a correction.

Its NOT freedom From religion that is protected.

It Freedom OF religion,that is protected.

I am sooooo confused.

.

Zee,

I like popeye… Can’t read what it says under the picture… hmmm might need some reading glasses…

Goofs in #279:

Children and adults seem to be equally adept at putting the least little differences under a mental microscope. Underneath their uniforms, they still divide one another based on size, income, attractiveness, religion, language, gender….

That’s the way of the real world. The social divisions are not created in the school, not really. They’re just easier to notice at school because what other place do children congregate in such large numbers, 5 days a week? But they are, after all, *social* divisions– not merely school divisions. They’re created and maintained across our entire society. You can’t stop them by changing school dress codes, as if in a vacuum. Change really begins everywhere else– like in the crib and the entire home.

FL Barb, I consider that hate speech on the verge of telling me it’s in the Constitution that I HAVE to practice some religion. The same people who coined that phrase also coined the winner “It’s Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.” It’s from a RW think tank. If enough people believe this crap, we’ll need an FFRA to go along with the ERA.

Goofsmom

Agree do they were uniforms in Ca in high school?

NY and Fl are only middle schools.

I wonder how many states do HS uniforms?

#276 Murphy

“Is anyone else noting the ODD companionability of the RIGHT and certain wings of the rad fem movement in some of this??”

I love that, actually, Murphy. I wish we had a term for our common ground.

Who was it that used to post here all the time about cable tv freedom? I noticed only the “conservative” sites discussing it, and can’t understand it at all, because we should all agree on that simple thing.

I would call it “populist” maybe. There are populist factions on both sides of the aisle.

Zee

OMG I am not telling you to practice a religion? Why the hell would I do that?

You have the freedom to believe what ever you want and you have the freedom to not believe whatever you want.

What’s up with you? Why so hostile?

Now I am a right winger? You’re twisting things I say Zee.
Just sayin.

Ok Goofsmom

Signing off it was nice talking to you I enjoyed it.

Goodnight and sweet dreams

(((FL Barbara))) Nighty-night and sweet dreams…

Social-Psyche,

#300 – I believe it is a combination of both. What pushes it to overt violence is only known by the individual that practices it.

Will having kids wear uniforms reduce hazing, bullying and violence… who really knows… but it’s worth a shot and frankly I don’t see the people in charge coming up with any ideas.

FL Barbara, read up on the origins of that “freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.” You can’t have it both ways. You can’t tell people we only protect the freedom of people to practice religion and then pretend you didn’t just add “NOT freedom *from* religion.” Either you have no clue what you’re saying, or you want to pass on the rightwing meme that resonates with you without any repercussions of reaction to what it actually means.

In case it’s the former, I brought you a lengthy article, linked above in post #302, which I think covers a lot of common ground we all have. It’s lengthy, tho, so if you’re headed off to bed save it for tomorrow.

Goofsmom, Zee, Barbara & anybody else here:

I’ve got one eye open and half a brain (no, it’s ok, it’s the top half), so I must tear myself away from the bracing conversation and great article links.

May our common dreams be sweet dreams.

Night, S-P…I’m turning in, too. Fascinating reading, tho, on the history of severing religion from public schools….apparently children used to be beaten if they refused to read from the version of the Bible dictated to by the school. So, it’s definitely a protection FOR religion/s as well. Something that’s not mentioned so often in these days of theocratic creep!

night, goofs…of the endless sunshine and fresh bread. Yeah, I could be less cantankerous if I had endless sunshine and fresh bread, too..!

Aack

#308 and wonderful homemade bread not wonder…

Sleepy… Nighty-night ((((PUMAs))))

Tis the season to revel in the moral and intellectual superiority that comes with being an agnostic.

The feel good post of the year
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/karma-and-schadenfreude-hillarys-got-it/

KABUL, Afghanistan — In the latest sign of the enduring financial costs of the Afghan war for the United States and other NATO countries, President Hamid Karzai said Tuesday that Afghanistan would not be able to pay for its own security until at least 2024.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/world/asia/09gates.html?hpw