Barbeque at Simo’s Place!

Murphy . . .
“got your email and getting ready to read away!”
——————–
Pleeeease, don’t feel obligated. More important things to attend to, I’m sure, (unless you have trouble sleeping and don’t want to use sleeping pills . . . don’t repeat I said that )

So this is what they mean when they claim to be ProChoice ?
queasy alert.
http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/

Gotta love Greenpeace’s ingenuity. See photo:
http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com/

Photo of obleagh with text:
America Honors Leaders Not Politicians.
Stop Global Warming.

lovely party! whew! finally got all the work done..such heavy lifting to write all those women! and ftr, Murphy, although I do/did appreciate having a prowl sent via email, I usually check on this blog anyway, so it is of no consequence if I do not get one. I know you must feel swamped at times, so not to worry ’bout me!
Hope all Pumas have a lovely week -end! Where’s pers today?)-miss her remarks. ((hugs))

I will not get started on my invisibility of women issue
I will not get started on my invisibility of women issue
I will not get started on my invisibility of women issue
I will not get started on my invisibility of women issue
I will not get started on my invisibility of women issue
x1000

Femisex has an interesting article up:

http://www.femisex.com/content/safe-and-legal-abortion-a-blessing-big-media-wont-admit-why-support-abotion-may-be-slipping

I guess it didn’t work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKx3UU7hwr0

If you haven’t seen the photo of bo on the Second Stimulus Package at http://www.drudgereport.com/ , please take a look. Not sure how much longer it will be there, but it’s pretty good. Thank you.

ipotter:

“So who was the lady in red who caught the eye of Obama – or should that be O-BUM-a?

Her name is Mayora Tavares, she is 16 and she comes from Brazil.

Mayora was at the G8 summit in Italy as part of the J8 – a group of 53 people aged between 14 and 17 who have been meeting in Rome since the start of the week. The group were there to discuss how the lives of young people around the world can be improved.”

It can start with disgusting old pricks not oogling / sexually objectifying children.
obama and letterman … virtual pedophiles

Quick drive by as I have company in the side yard — Thanks for the shout out Murphy — BTW – you have mail — a link to my photo’s since you saw the before “look”

Any PUMA is invited to come visit !!!!

OK – back to the BBQ !!

DWP #22
Thanks for the info. What a “leader” we have.

Hi Murphy, hope you are doing well. Nice bbq.

Simo
I love the little tractor / bell thingie.

admin…
wish I could!
Here:
http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/10937/1/

I missed the buddha…brb

Cape Hatteras #4

John Holdren, Obama’s science czar says: forcd abortion ans mass sterilization needed to save the planet.
————————————————————–
WOW! Although I am not really that surpriced by the hypocrisy of the radical left, the idea that this is were science is taking us is more than alarming and oh so Obama.

The way my party makes me feel these days can be expressed best by a reference to a scene in the Italian movie “Life is Beautiful” set in W.W.II. facist Italy.
Maria is in attendance at an event she would have perferred to avoid. The oh so educated and sophisticated facists at the party are disgusing how children should be tough about the expense handicap people inflick on the state. The arguement is made under the guise of a mathematics problem recommended for teaching children. At that moment Maria has had enough and crawls under the table like a child to meet her soon to be husband. “Porta mi via” she begs him-”take me away.” He puts her on his horse and they ride off away from the “Ivytard” facists.

The democrats are dead.
Sarah Palin- Porta ci via. Take us away!

“Ivytard”- Thanks Camile Paglia for that one.

Juliette
I think you’re (and others) setting yourelf up for disappointment. Sarah Palin isn’t anyone’s savior. I know she isn’t mine. The best I can tell you is live the best you can and prepare for the worst.
Make a new plan, Ann. Hope on a bus, Gus. Slip out the back, Jack, and set yourself free.

ipotter
Not on my planet it isn’t.

Boy howdy, a neuter prowl. Count me in.

feminism = the human experience as lived by women, therefore ALL women and girls are feminists

ergo

humanism = the human experience as lived by humans, therefore ALL adults & children are humanists

I would not agree with the above definition of feminism, any more than I’d agree with the above definition of humanism.

~ ~ ~

Regarding the segue from feminism to civil rights to AA’s not supporting civil rights – yes it is all related, but unfortunately fails to address the elephant in the room – conservative Christianity. Do conservative christians of the white persuasion support the civil rights of the conservative christians of the black persuasion? Chew on that one. Do Christians of the conservative persuasion tend to support the civil rights of LGBT? Hardly. Does this sad fact apply to AA conservative christians more so than to white conservative christians? You can answer that one.

The elephant in the room of anti-humanism, anti-feminism, anti-civil-rights and anti-LGBT-rights is the conservatives of religion.

Don’t know whether this has been posted, but here’s a link to a really interesting article, “Independents Begin to Edge Away from Prez Obama.” Thanks.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/24717.html

MKfromLA in #49:

But the people of the superior classes do. And they teach that prejudice to their children.

The USA is one of the most rigidly stratified societies on the planet.

Dances #42

Thats Ok, Dances, I am very used to being disappointed by political hopefulls and elected officials. I have mentioned before that I am as prepared as I always am to be disillusioned by Sarah Palin or any other political hopeful, because you just don’t know what problems or positions may arise. Besides that I already have my savior, thank you very much.
Having said that, I think that her views are grounded in common sence and compassion and relatable to the middle class working people who are about to be crushed by Obama’s policies.

Who the hell are these Czars anyway and why do we need so many of them, Did any of them even under go a security check?
Soon we will have more czars than US Senators- all appointed by and to report only to The One.

Here is page 838 from Holdrens book-

” If some individuals contribute to general social deterioration by overproducing children, and if the need is compelling, they can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility-just as they can be required to exercise responsibility in their resource consumption patterns-providing they are not denied equal protection.”

Equal protection; humm like the kind that Gerald Walpin or the the G.M. bond holders got?

FTR
My original comment:
DancesWithPumas 07.10.09 at 5:11 pm

How’s this for an oxymoron:

Civil Rights Group Divided Over Gay Marriage

By JENNIFER STEINHAUER
LOS ANGELES — The Southern Christian Leadership Conference — the 50-year-old civil rights organization founded by the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and others — is seeking to remove the president of its Los Angeles chapter in response to his support of same-sex marriage in California.

The effort by the Atlanta-based organization is meeting stiff resistance in Los Angeles from both the board of the local chapter, whose chairman is secretary of the state Democratic Party, and the City Council president.

During the battle last fall over Proposition 8, an amendment to the State Constitution that banned same-sex marriage, the chapter’s president, the Rev. Eric P. Lee, was more than a tangential figure for the opposition. He was front and center at an opposition group’s large rally at City Hall and marched in the blazing sun for 15 miles in Fresno. Many other local African-American pastors prepared mailings featuring church leaders in support of the proposition and linking their views to President Obama, then the Democratic nominee for president.

Mr. Lee “was very helpful to us,” said Rick Jacobs, head of the Courage Campaign, a left-leaning political action group in Los Angeles that fought to the initiative.”

admin #41

How do you feel about the way China dealt with its population explosition. It didn’t seem to work out so well for baby girls.

Murphy #9 Sounds like you’ve decided it was class? Why? Are black kids assumed to be poor? But the cause remains ambiguous even though the article was fact-free on those counts.
oohh, more food for thought: was it class or race that was the factor in the Philadelphia Pool Incident?

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/mirror-time-how-many-black-kids-are-s

No ambiguity in the thread about (old story) how Blacks evidently don’t care about the civil or human rights of others (LGBT) Big assumption but I don’t know if you’re attributing the outcome to race hate or homophobia.

Since the civil rights group’s name is The Southern Christian Leadership Conference the words Southern and Christian should jump out right away to suggest a certain bias religion). But right now all all women are feminists even if they’re anti-feminists. I don’t get the parallel.

Did you check out what the white southern Christians across the US voted on marriage equality? Seems to me white southern Christians have been against most civil rights for most people, thus the 200 year struggle for human rights.
______________________________

I don’t think Ginsburg was talking about population control in countries like China and India. She’s talking about the eugenics movement related to racist and classist social Darwinism beginning at the end of the 19th c. and the desire to limit births of “undesirables”. I’ve been working on a post about that for a bout a week and I’m almost finished. As a Jew she would be more cognizant than most about this historical issue.

Scarlet #63,

When Obama announced his stimulus appropriation, he promised millions of “shovel-ready” jobs. Many people worried about increasing the national debt to create government jobs, but his proposal was attractive because it conjured up visions of crews in hard hats repairing our nation’s infrastructure, roads, bridges and electrical grids, and building long-needed highways and schools.

A member of Pelosi’s staff dared to offer the suggestion that “apron ready” could be the female equivalent of the term “shovel ready.” The feminists didn’t think that was funny.

and…

A member of Pelosi’s staff dared to offer the suggestion that “apron ready” could be the female equivalent of the term “shovel ready.” The feminists didn’t think that was funny.
___________________________

I don’t know if these comments make more fun of Obama and Pelosi. I think Schlafly is as ridiculous and dangerous as the other two.

re: “apron ready”. If that quote comes from the Schlafly camp I would question it’s validity and context before I believed Pelosi said that. Pelosi has been no friend of Democratic women but Schlafly is a potent and permanent enemy.

Murphy – no, I havent decided it’s a class thing — I’m wondering how much of it IS a class thing, that’s all.

I try on various scenarios in my mind: A bunch of wealthy Nigerians show up in super-duper Speedos (whatever that looks like). Okay, swap the wealthy Nigerians for wealthy Swiss. A bunch of poor Moroccan kids show up in crappy Speedos. Okay, swap the poor Moroccans for poor Albanians.

It’s funny – in Europe they often look at your shoes to get a fix on your class. Here they look at your skin.

Here, I’m editing the original comment I posted to the oxymoron part only, because the title is what struck me:
My original comment:
DancesWithPumas 07.10.09 at 5:11 pm

How’s this for an oxymoron:
Civil Rights Group Divided Over Gay Marriage

Goodnight. Sleep well.

Hello Puma cuties. I’m stopping by to show my support (in light of recent blah) and also state that I am one of those crazy womyn folk who will always vote for women when they are an option, no matter what. I’m only here on this planet for a handful of decades. I want more women in office. Only way there will be more women in office is if they are voted in. I can vote. That’s the answer. Capiche. We do not have the luxury of weighing candidates so critically…’cause there aren’t that many to begin with and we’ll all be DEAD in a few decades. get IT? I support women. I vote for women. All the others who think they can pick and choose don’t get Mortality. Sorry.

We.are.not.going.to.live.that.much.longer.on.the.grand.scale.

You want it now or never?

You want it in your lifetime or not?

Just my 2 cents.

Anyway, glad I could sneak in here while most are comfy and sleepin’. Just wanted to show my support and say hello. Will be stopping by more, now that I have a *working* computer! LOL. xo

Murphy in #66:

Population count is another factor, sa is diversity. High counts of either/both will hardly mean lower stratification by class.

Among the nations you named, India, China and Indonesia are highly diverse, Japan and Korea less so. The nation you omitted is the one I named as among the most stratified: yes, it’s the USA, and it is high in both population and diversity.

I hadn’t seen world population figures in a long time so I wasn’t sure what the top 10 were but I was fairly sure about the top 5. Here are the top 5 acc’g to one list:

China
India
United States
Indonesia
Brazil

Brasil also is high in diversity, but there again, those two factors don’t negate the fact that it’s rigidly stratified by class– just like the United States.

The top 5 share this dubious distinction.

And yes, all 5 struggle with some overlapping problems. In the USA, we’re not so very different after all, albeit in a way more negative than we wish to accept.

Murphy,#74

When white patriarchal religious types espouse patriarchal heteronormative bigotry, sexism, or misogyny it is repellent, but not surprising.
______________

Why isn’t it surprising? White conservatives and Christians also espouse a doctrine of equality, freedom, justice, god-fearing and trembling at the wrath of sin. Somebody once said about the slave holding American rebels “nobody wails more about the unfairness of taxes and how it has reduced them to slavery than the slaver driving his slaves to market”. Not a direct quote but you get the message.

America is full of contradictions. The promise of the constitution required untold bloodshed endless battles, misery and slowly won human rights. The battle is never won.

There ARE 50% of feminists who oppose women’s rights. They’re called anti-feminists, conservative, religious, comfortable women and flag huggers. Only on this blog could anti-feminists be called feminists much as segregationist might be called integrationists and yet hold to the same segregationist views.

Kat in your Hat, it is very very nice to see you again.

And I am on the other side of your argument. That said, it is still very nice to see you again.

PUMAbear 07.11.09 at 1:19 am
re: “apron ready”. If that quote comes from the Schlafly camp I would question it’s validity and context before I believed Pelosi said that. Pelosi has been no friend of Democratic women but Schlafly is a potent and permanent enemy.

————–
The validity and context of “apron ready” is on the NOW link I posted on 63.

back atcha (((((((((goofsmam))))))))))

Simple Minded Me Says:

Whether it’s Race, Religion, Sexual Orientation or Class, we wave the United States Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the Civil and Equal Rights Amendments
like the flags of one of the most equality-oriented societies in the world.

…Didn’t those documents assume, however, that our society would actually come to a “consensus” that equality and human rights were to be the foundation rather than an “ideal”?

…Few, if any, denominations can conceive of “Human Rights” without them, in whole or in part, somehow being based upon “Biblical Principles” and that is the whole problem, as we all know.

…The Human Rights issue is a religious battle, pure and simple, which the Constitution attempted to avoid.

…Unfortunately, the “One Nation Under God” masquerades as THE “consensus” for following Biblical rather than Constitutional Law.

The problem isn’t that 99% of ALL Christians believe that’s the way it should be – the problem is that they LIE about their belief in Separation of Church State in order to protect their position as the exception to the rule.

Just like most of us lie, in one way or another, about “class” issues…

I think.

Murphy,

Hispanics are not a monolith. I think there is a difference between Hispanic pentecostals and catholics in the way they address marriage equality. They don’t oppose ME because they are Hispanic, per se.

Why do you give a pass to anti-feminists because they are female? Sounds like the same kind of hypocrisy.

ps Murphy -

I was the one drawing the distinction between southern christians, west coast christians, members of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, etc. Because the article that DWP posted mentions the west coast guy who supported marriage equality.

That’s why I mentioned west coast versus the SCLC HQ.

Cinie,

Glady’s Knight is a Mormon? That makes me feel suicidal. Is that a joke?

Does that mean she maybe voted against ME because she is a Mormon?

(((goofs))),

Are you armed with hugs and ready to do battle?

Sorry guys, it’s common knowledge here in Vegas. In fact, if you Google “Gladys Knight Mormon,” you get lots of hits.

Cinie, I guess they like getting 10% of her checks even if she IS a black female.

wontbackdown #98

wow lots of thought-provoking comments all packed into one! Worthy of a whole thread if you ask me.

my 2 cents (until we get that whole thread) …

The Human Rights issue is a religious battle I think it’s an ethical battle. I can only dream that religious questions were based on ethics. Sigh.

And the United States Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the Civil and Equal Rights Amendments are exist because we Americans have demonstrated our need for their protections against other Americans.

The problem isn’t that 99% of ALL Christians believe that’s the way it should be – the problem is that they LIE about their belief in Separation of Church State in order to protect their position as the exception to the rule.
Yup. Yup Yup.

Confession – when I saw the copy of the Bill of Rights in DC, I cried. That’s my religion.

(((PUMAbear)))

I’m armed with bunches and bunches of hugs and more than ready to do battle…

I did some more searching on Gladys Knight… She converted in 1998 after one of her sons did… She now has a 100 member Mormon gospel group… I am so sad and blown away…

Murphy

fundamentalist christians dont espouse freedom or equality Pumabear. they espouse submission to God and strict adherence to his will as set forth in the Bible.
___________________________

Don’t think so Murphy. Fundamentalist white christians such as Fallwell, Swaggart, Taggert, Dobson, conflate christianity with patriotism, freedom, moral and sexual virtue, good husbandry practices, low taxes, receiving wealth due to all of the above.

America is the new Israel, bow down to god, the forefathers are god-fearing christians.

Yes, they are religious bigots but they also claim a particular affinity with democracy, freedom, rule of law.

No one cries out more that he is a slave for having to pay taxes to the king than the slaver driving his Negroes to the slave market.

Murphy,

You emphatically DID blame the bigotry against LGBT on their being Black not on their being Christians or individual bigots. You did not acknowledge that there is a difference between factions of a religion. Why blame individuals on this issue when you blame Islam for everything that goes wrong in ME society?
It’s the nature of religion to impose itself on others, it’s revealed truth and they’re doing everyone a favor. The constitution is a step or two down from the Bible, Koran, Talmud.

If everyone is an individual personally to blame why do we have these brainwashed religious groups acting as cohorts against a common purpose?
They’re not solo individuals who just happened to find each other. This is their faith and ideation. You believe in a system that you’re raised in. You don’t go questioning everything like your a philosopher.

WBD ….

I love love loved Joseph Campbell.

Cinie – thanks for that link to Mormons & the Curse of Cain legacy. I am getting too tired to read it now, but I will take a look tmw.

Possible reason for few blacks in Mormon Church

As I remember, one of Joe Smith’s prophesies was that God punished the decendents of Cain by making them black.

I looked into it, herre’s what I found.

http://www.mrm.org/curse-of-cain

Surprisingly though there are black Mormons other than Gladys Knight.

Social-Psyche 07.11.09 at 2:43 am:

What, you thought M&MS were vegetables, because of the colours?

Of course! What do you expect from one who changes the decor by spray painting all of the furniture – in avocado green – and refinishing the hardwoods by rolling them in water-based, flat brown – “oops” paint.

Oh crap I missed a party hope someone tendered to your drinks
Simo and mrs wishing you love and happiness with your new BBque will now read about the party I missed.
Was caspers music good? Yeah LimboV CongoV

Murphy,

who called you a racist? I just said I thought your logic was not following when calling Blacks homophobic but refusing to call women anti-feminist. Feminism has a different meanings for different people. Pick any one of them and there will still be anti-feminists by that definition.

I’m pointing out the possible reason that some AA’s justify homophobia. Same reason some white’s justify homophobia: religion.

None of that has much to do with race. Usually homophobia isn’t race based. Racism is race based.

I appreciate the civilized discussion. Gotta call it a night, though.

ciao

Murphy, anyone can be a hypocrite, even feminists and anti-feminists. So repeating endlessly the mantra that blacks voted against LGBT because they are homophobes and hypocrites on civil rights seems odd. On the other hand you say you can’t define anti-feminism thereby giving a pass to the enemies of feminism, femophobes, who would deny us equal rights in the same way as some would deny LGBT rights. Sure AAs are hypocritical but no more so than christians of other races. If the problem is “they got theirs” plenty of whites, Mormons have had “theirs” for some time now,too. It took hundreds of years to half ass gain equality and there were plenty of races and religions that stood in the way of that.
There’s plenty of resentment about AA’s voting for Obama but for all the white women and young people who voted for him, apparently not so much. For all the white christians who voted for Bush, apparently not so much.

FLBarbara:

I need an direct line mojito and you weren’t here to hook it up to me.

I’ve been stressed out and under the weather, though I can still move so I guess that’s one level up from being under the bus.

Some more music would be nice. Something cool & quiet.

Good night pumas.

Maybe this is off topic, but why do some view vigorous debate as confrontational attack? Can’t everybody accept that we all have strong beliefs and sometimes we’re wrong? How the hell is anybody going to learn anything if their assumptions are never challenged? And, how can truth prevail if truth tellers wimp out every time they meet opposition? Woman up, ladies.

Wait, there you are FLBarbara. You know how to take care of a person! A great Saturday to you too.

When I wake, I shall fight for the right and shun the wrong.

Good night women of passion
Sweet dreams
Mojitos on me tomorrow

Cinie –
I thought this debate was healthy, civilized, and vigorous.

Vigorous :: okay.
Uncivilized :: maybe I could get that root canal I’ve been looking forward to.

gotta go, ciao for real

Goodnight.

LOVE this discussion on this thread AND the pumas who are having it .
If I would have been able to participate in real time I would have liked to have pointed out that my good friend MK initially pointed out the SCLC comparrison (which I think is important ) and when my good friend puma bear responded with ” How many orthodox and ultra orthodox Jews support marriage equality. Why don’t you single them out? ”
I would have asked which Jewish groups actively (and Nationally ) advertised their support of prop 8 ?
No group gets a pass for promoting hate , but I imagine if a group puts themselves on the frontline of the issue , they should expect to be the targets of the initial wave of outrage .
Everyone group should be held accountable for their hate campaigns , Mormons , Christians of all stripes , Muslim factions etc.etc. Addressing the organisations in the forefront is in no way giving a pass to those who are guilty on the sidelines (just sayin ) and jumping to the defense of a hateful group and saying that they are being singled out because of a racial association is missing the obvious (to some) point that it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with POWER .
All social movements will forever be compared to the successful AA Civil Rights Movement – not because of race but because of success .
A final thought …
The road to hell is paved by Religion …..

PSS I LOVE it when all of you really smart pumas force introspection on me . I (even when just lurking ) have had to examine my own beliefs and question my own positions so often over the last year that I have absolutely no idea where I will eventually end up – and I like it . Thank you for sharing and broadening my perspective .

Different topic, but “fresh news” this morning. Sotomayor’s supporters are trying to dig up as much “dirt” on the New Haven firefighters as they can. No matter if you are “for” or “against” Sotomayor’s getting on the SCOTUS, this “stinks” big-time. This reminds me of all those people swarming into AK trying to dig up as much manufactured “dirt” on Palin in order to besmirch her. That was the dems in AK. This is also the dems, only trying to smut up males for the benefit of a female. Doggone it, enough with this kind of shit!
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/71660.html

henry, that’s the point. No matter what they “dig up” on the firemen, it was not going to be anything that was introduced in court that had any bearing whatsoever on Sotomayor’s decision. This stinks so bad it isn’t funny. I am getting to tired of political parties sending paid people out to “dig up dirt” on other people; “dirt” that has nothing to do with the situation at hand!!

BTW, is everyone else getting sick and tired (as I am) of seeing and hearing O every day on tv? Was it that the other president’s weren’t talking all over the country every day like O is (WHEN is he ever sitting doing his job as president?); or were they out there every doggone day like he is, but the press just didn’t cover him all the time like they are now? Why is it that every single day we have to see his ugly mug and hear his voice saying “let me be clear” while he’s shifting his gaze from one TOTUS to the other TOTUS back and forth. I am getting so sick of him day after day after day!

#159 Henry , I love your plan.
The big problem with class in this country is everyone pretends it does not exist . It is another elephant in the room.

BCL I’m guessing the rationale had to do with the fact that males don’t carry babies. If there were 5 women to every man there could be hypothetically 5 babies for every man. However, with 5 men to every woman (for example) there would only be one child for the 5 men because there would only be one woman to have the child.

Another problem with China’s “one child” law, though was brought out when there was a catastrophe. I don’t remember what it was lately- was it a school collapsing or something like that? Hundreds (or was it more) children died. That meant that all those families lost their ONLY child; and, if the law hadn’t been changed for this exception, the only heir would be dead on hundreds (if not thousands) of homes.

Interesting discussion last night. I found it expansive from all sides. Good idea about a thread dedicated to WBD’s excellent points… especially since the 4 principles in the discussion are all blog owners. That makes the creation of interesting threads on the topics all the more likely. That’s a good thing.

I was slightly stunned by the contradiction when I read this headline yesterday, “Civil Rights Group Divided Over Gay Marriage”. I clicked the link not knowing which group that might be. But, sting was added to stunned when I found out.

A civil rights group, founded by the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., no less, divided on civil rights for lesbians and gays. It boggles my mind to realize a group I’d expect to identify with the denial of rights to minorities, is divided over the issue to the point of attempting to oust a faction that disagrees with the denial of those rights. It was that simple for me.

As far as “they got theirs”…
U.S. Jews and AAs were allies in the struggle for AA civil rights. So to hear Jessie Jackson refer to a Jewish Orthodox neighborhood in Brooklyn as “Hymietown”, or Al Sharpton refer to Jews, as a group, in a derogatory way, is appalling. Clarence Thomas’s lack of support for “affirmative action” (after EEO put him through school), or his inaction during his entire tenure on the request for licensing a women’s tv channel (think B.E.T.), or the fact that interracial marriage between blacks and whites was illegal until very recently (during my lifetime), and the issue of reparations for descendants of African Americans persistes and remains a relatively current issue. It’s difficult for me to get past the fact that the same groups that had “it” done to them are doing “it” to others. It’s basically for this same reason that I do not support Israel.

I’m also thinking if the bible /religion is the basis of their positions on civil rights, perhaps they should omit the ‘civil rights’ portion of the identity in their brand.

Anyway, thanks for the insightful expansion of the debate. It was educational.

July 11, 2009
Thousands Camp After China Quake
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 8:36 a.m. ET

GUANTUNXIANG, China (AP) — Thousands camped in tents in southwestern China on Saturday after a magnitude-6.0 earthquake destroyed thousands of homes, killed one person and injured 320, state media reported.

At the epicenter of Thursday’s quake in Yao’an county, nearly 22,000 people took shelter in some 3,000 tents, and emergency crews rushed in quilts, rice, cooking oil and other supplies, the official Xinhua News Agency said.

The quake displaced some 250,000 people, the report said, sharply revising downward an initial estimate of 400,000. Xinhua, which cited a deputy governor of Yunnan province where the quake occurred, did not give a reason for the discrepancy. A duty officer at the provincial government offices declined to comment, saying the media office was closed for the weekend.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/07/11/world/AP-AS-China-Earthquake.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print

Not sure if this has been posted yet:

LAW WILL LET AFGHAN HUSBANDS STARVE WIVES WHO WITHHOLD SEX:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/law-will-let-afghan-husbands-starve-wives-who-withhold-sex-1740229.html

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Friday that the United States was now seeking “amnesty” for two American journalists imprisoned in North Korea

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/11/world/asia/11diplo.html?_r=1&hpw

If anyone is drinking wine at the picnic ( you are making me hungry ) try this treat…. a NICE PINOT NOIR with cold watermelon pieces in it ….mmmm yummyyy ..

DancesWithPumas 07.11.09 at 11:23 am
Dances . . .
“Interesting discussion last night. I found it expansive from all sides. Good idea about a thread dedicated to WBD’s excellent points… especially since the 4 principles in the discussion are all blog owners. That makes the creation of interesting threads on the topics all the more likely. That’s a good thing.”
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AGREED! I saw it this morning and felt like I was watching table tennis for a while . . .It was a very informative and enlightening dialogue, involving highly bright, insightful women I have GREAT respect and admiration for. (Didn’t see it as pleasurable as a “root canal” MK . . not at all!) I appreciated the way everyone respectfully communicated thoughts and insights.

Dances . . was looking for YOU to “put you toes in the water a bit”

Hey Dances:

In my comments last night (#98) I erred by not using the term “religion” rather than “christian” and religious doctrines/principles rather than “biblical”.

I also should have made clear at the end “and at the same each attempting to impose their own religious ideology as a moral standard therefore the exception to the rule”

It’s just that Christians are the most vocally visible thus obvious therefore I sort of defaulted into using “biblical” as my “historical” reference to all doctrines.

I was typing fast and unintentionally ended up framing my opinion into loose talking points.

I’ve been trying to break myself of that, but I obviously had a slip, big time.

Human Rights and Equality are pretty straightforward destinations, if there weren’t so many people trying to tell “God” who’s worthy in One Nation Under [their] God.

Human conditioning to theologies as if they are public policies should be a crime.

Having said all of that – it is really, really enlightening to go back and read the issues that the main parties brought to the table – issues that I have never considered.

I appreciate their time and passion in putting their views on the table.

Have a good weekend.

Rancho
Yes, thank you. I think it was eye strain and not a sinus headache, haven’t had one of those in decades. Enjoy your trip!!!

Murphy,
As in the dynamic, in microcosm, of one demographic oppressing another. Israel vs refugees as relative to Germany’s early treatment of the Jews. Jews were done unto and have been doing unto disposessed refugees.

Something akin to internalized oppression redirected to other groups.

Ozero worship alert. puke
http://www.newsweek.com/id/205961

tsunami
un.freakin.be.liev.able!!!

Oh wait… obama got to where he is based on the very things “obama’s obama” is crusading against… lies, rumors, innuendo.

goddamned bastards

Does that make her a feminist?

#189 Oligarchists fear the Net . It puts information and communication in the hands of commoners.
In the 1600s two inovations drove political progress , the printing press and the coffee house .
The press took information monopoly from the powerfull and the scribes they employed . The coffee house became the blogs of the day . Instead of drinking themselves into a stupor after work , private citizens stayed awake and hammered out new ideas on government , rights , freedom and justice . The rulers Too late tried to shut the coffee house down .

oooooooooo forgive all my typos, I need to get my keyboard under control.

DancesWithPumas

If blog owners are going to be held responsible
————
Ahhhhhh Dances, holding a blog responsible for it’s blogger’s comments is BULLSHIT! (I know you also think this is crap too Dances)

Murphy is not responsible for what I am saying. I am not her sock puppet and any other blogger that is too much of a coward to come on our blog and be specific about her accusations and pass judgment on Murphy for the rants we pass out or the non-pc statements that are tossed around every now and then, they can Kiss my Ass and Kiss Murphy’s too.

(((Rancho))) Yup, we have an agenda of getting the ERA ratified and Alice Paul the Honor she deserves and we need all the women working together on this.
I found some awesome photos that I want to design ERA t-shirts with…will post them on the blog when I get them designed.

Love you Rancho and all the work you put into the prowl. Go Rancho Go!!

DancesWithPumas 07.11.09 at 3:18 pm

BillieJo
Of course I think it’s bullshit… that doesn’t mean obama and obama’s obama won’t do it.
————-
Oh yea, I know the Jackass wants us all to kiss his ring but that ain’t gonna happen. If they want to start shutting down blogs that call him a JACKASS then a new one is formed. If he thinks he can wipe out dissension like Iran did to it’s protesters, I will make it my full-free-time hobby to get around his antics. That’s why God made Hackers!!!

Yeah, Billie Jo . . . An ERA shirt! Sign me up! I’m sure it will be as wonderful as your flyer! What a great idea! Wherever you go, you are opening up the opportunity for dialogue for ERA. You have my email. Thank YOU for your support and all that YOU do!

doing a drop by as I had to deliver a bench and pot then back out on the road for more shopping —

IF Bloggers are held responsible for the bloggers who show up and blog then I am heading straight over the Huffington Post and others and let fucking hell break loose !!

Running out again.

I’m just glad to see that everyone on the PUMA PAC blog — which I love so dearly and consider home — made it through last night’s barbecue at Simo’s without skewering or being skewered! I lurked for a while, and then had to get some rest. Like DWP, I had a really bad headache, perhaps from eyestrain resulting from too much web research re the Walpin firing.

I offer the following from a web site I came across while researching ‘bigotry.’ (I was especially moved by the quotes from Coretta Scott King, MLK’s widow.) Thanks. http://www.brainyquote.com/words/bi/bigotry136728.html

Definition:
bigotry: The state of mind of a bigot; obstinate and unreasoning attachment [to] one’s own belief and opinions, with narrow-minded intolerance of beliefs opposed to them. The practice or tenets of a bigot.
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quotes about bigotry:

“Perhaps travel cannot prevent bigotry, but by demonstrating that all peoples cry, laugh, eat, worry, and die, it can introduce the idea that if we try and understand each other, we may even become friends.”
Maya Angelou

“Bigotry tries to keep truth safe in its hand with a grip that kills it.”
Rabindranath Tagore

“Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood.”
Coretta Scott King

“I believe all Americans who believe in freedom, tolerance and human rights have a responsibility to oppose bigotry and prejudice based on sexual orientation.”
Coretta Scott King

“Bigotry is the sacred disease.”
Heraclitus

“Look back, to slavery, to suffrage, to integration and one thing is clear. Fashions in bigotry come and go. The right thing lasts.”
Anna Quindlen

“Bigotry murders religion to frighten fools with her ghost.”
Charles Caleb Colton

“The left sees nothing but bigotry and superstition in the popular defense of the family or in popular attitudes regarding abortion, crime, busing, and the school curriculum.”
Christopher Lasch

According to Gary Bauer, the former president of the Family Research Council who now leads the conservative American Values, Palin’s gender and personal experiences would make her a “fantastic” leader in the anti-abortion movement. “A woman making the argument that this is not something that should be a right, but rather that it’s a disaster for women, is a much more powerful voice than somebody like myself, for example.” Bauer recalled that when he led the FRC, he “set out to find as many pro-life young women as I could. When there were opportunities to give them media appearances, I did.”

http://washingtonindependent.com/49790/palin-still-finds-fans-in-anti-abortion-movement

It’s just not true that there aren’t anti-feminist forces actively working against the feminist agenda. The Independent Women’s Forum was born as an adjunct of FreedomWorks, a known rightwing AstroTurfing machine.

While claiming to challenge “radical feminists,” IWF primarily targets mainstream feminists and feminist organizations, as exemplified by such figures as Hillary Rodham Clinton and such groups as the American Association of University Women.

IWF is a secular counterpart to Religious Right women’s groups like Eagle Forum and Concerned Women for America, but these groups often work together. People for the American Way describe IWF as a group that “opposes affirmative action, gender equity programs like Title IX, and the Violence Against Women Act.”[4]

The quote is from Source Watch, but I didn’t want to risk too many links in one post.

Cinie, i have an idea, why dont you just call governor sarah palin’s office or write her, she’s got emails, she’s got pretty much the rest of the civil world has believe it or not. I know Katie Couric has some of believing Sarah cant read, but you really should just go to the horse’s mouth. I know someone who actually got a hand written thank you note from sarah. So, im quite sure if you just asked sarah, would you like to abolish roe vs. wade, she will tell you. Then, depending on her answer you will have solid grouds for a lot of things. Matter of fact
i will write her myself as well so we can have both sides.

Let me amend that, IWF was formed in support of Clarence Thomas in 1992. They joined up with Americans for Prosperity/Citizens for a Sound Economy/FreedomWorks.

The first president of Americans for Prosperity was Nancy Pfotenhauer who, prior to the groups foundation in 2003, had been an executive with the Citizens for a Sound Economy Foundation.[20]Pfotenhauer later left AFP and in 2007 joined the John McCain campaign. Pfotenhauer was simultaneously the president of the Independent Women’s Forum. From 1996 to 2001, Pfotenhauer was the director of the Washington office of Koch Industries.[21][22]

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Americans_For_Prosperity_Foundation

((((Cinie))))

It’s okay to vent and also to point out things you have discovered that others may not have had the time to research… For that I thank you….

I hope you weren’t reading my rants as a reaction to your posts, they’re not…

CJK,

#219 – Very true and ultimately that “mob” mentality is what got “O” elected… People are not being taught in school the path of critical thinking. They are being taught how to pass the tests.. Very sad state of affairs….

goofsmom 07.11.09 at 5:01 pm

Thanks, goofsmom. BTW, I love and agree with both your ‘rants.’

Critical thinking is, indeed, what is sadly and sorely lacking in our educational system, and in our national discourse. No matter what one may think of Sarah Palin, throughout all the baseless, horrific, mindless attacks, she seems to have remained fiercely independent and to have retained her personal integrity and individual humanity. IMO, she is not in thrall to any party or organization, and I hope she remains that way. Only by keeping herself free of such entanglements/obligations and eschewing ‘political correctness’ can she emerge as the national leader we so desperately need to unify the multitude of factions that have almost completely fractured and paralyzed our democratic republic.

sistermoon3 07.11.09 at 5:08 pm

Thanks for the e-mail addy, sistermoon3! I will e-mail her, too.

CJK,

# 222 – Sorry about Palin, it’s true though once her time is over at the end of the month she becomes no more than another voice in the vast expanse of MSM.

I’m not going to dream, speculate or “hope” for her to do anything more than what she has said. She will become another guest speaker at many functions, with the title of “was candidate for VP”

Like I said I’m grumpy and I probably need a timeout…

We have too many politicians but no leaders . We have smooth talking focus grouped salesmen but no communicators . We have candidates with super resume`s but none with character.We have people with generations of experiance in office but none who can get things done .
The Harvardocracy insiders have FAILED ! @#$%^&*()*&%$$

CJK 07.11.09 at 5:16 pm:

While I agree with the ideals, they assume that woman’s rights to equality are firmly in place, violence and sexism against women are considered taboos, women have equitable presence in all legislative bodies and a woman’s reproductive rights are no longer under constant threat as immoral, illegal and a liberal feminist issue only.

Whether we like it or not, those are all common issues affecting all women and there is simply no way that my beliefs about what is important grants me protection without being a part of a collective voting block that supports my rights to that protection.

Cape Hatteras,

#228 – Truer words were never spoken!!!!!

CJK 07.11.09 at 5:45 pm
I agree. How many ways did she need to say that she was going to work for the whole country, not just Alaska for the idiots to get it that she is not just walking away.

wontbackdown 07.11.09 at 5:44 pm

WBD, BCL, of course coalitions and groups with shared purpose(s) are necessary to help individuals achieve shared goals. And, I agree that coalitions do indeed shift over time. I also agree that there are no longer any organizations that are true ‘good guys’ and ‘bad guys.’ Last year, HRC supporters were abandoned and betrayed by virtually all the organizations we had previously trusted. All I’m trying to say is that the necessary support and help of coalitions and groups that share our purpose(s) and goals still does not relieve each of us of the personal obligation to continually think, examine, re-examine situations and to come to our own conclusions/decisions/actions. In fact, I think it’s imperative that each individual who aligns with a coalition or group continue to think critically in order to be a more effective participant and to help achieve shared goals.

CJK
Of course, you are right. But one does not preclude the other. I think most of us are not followers, but are individual thinkers, so that goes without saying. I’m saying, try to think strategically while you are acting individually.

BigCatLover 07.11.09 at 5:51 pm
BigCatLover 07.11.09 at 5:54 pm

Yup and yup! Also, I think Palin will likely fundraise/campaign for candidates in 2010 to help bring a better bipartisan balance to Congress by unseating the BO ‘rubber stampers.’ Plus, it’s going to take A LOT of money for her to run in 2012. It’s not too early for her backers to start strategizing, organizing and fundraising.

BigCatLover 07.11.09 at 6:04 pm
wontbackdown 07.11.09 at 6:04 pm

WBD, BCL, thanks, and glad we’re on the same page.

#240 – If I were to support Palin it would be because she supported ALL women candidates in 2010.

I don’t care diddly poop about a Bipartisan congress, I’m working for a BIGENDER representative congress. Partisan schmartisan, after everything I have been through this past election cycle, I have learned that the parties are two sides of the same coin…

admin 07.11.09 at 3:45 pm

Billie Jo! great to see you.

very well said, as always. I really agree with you about the “poor lone Republican sweet talking me over to the darkside” menace. Not because it’s an inherently condescending “concern” (which it is) but because it points out an obvious element of silliness to the whole meta-conversation. It’s not like hordes of fundamentalist Christian Republican women are clamoring to join the cause for civil rights for LGBT or the cause for equal rights/opportunities for women or the cause for reproductive privacy. Sometimes it strikes me as silly that we spend a lot of time worrying and fretting about whether rabid Republican fundamentalists will infiltrate our cause and bend it to their nefarious will. Those sorts of people are either uninterested in our causes or are actively working AGAINST us. But we forget that and end up seeing boogeymen where there are none.

The range of women’s political views as wide as anyone’s — all the way along the wide spectrum — and most of us are not at either end, or ARE at either end but only on SOME issues. the true far-left or far-right diehards are very few. I think we make a mistake when we assume too quickly that someone is too far left or right for us to work together with.
————

Once again Murph you show me how much better you are at expressing my thoughts than I am. And that’s no joke.

admin 07.11.09 at 6:12 pm

Yes! Include. Do not exclude. Yet that doesn’t mean taking leave of our obligations as human beings to common sense, common good, courtesy, critical thinking, decency and the laws of civilized, peace-seeking societies.

If, my some miracle, HRC does run, and if Palin also runs, it will be a tough decision for me personally. But, it’s certainly a dilemma I’d love to have!
————-
No dilemma here. HRC hands down.
Back to painting.
over

Sorry, HRC hands down also… for many, many reasons….

BigCatLover 07.11.09 at 6:36 pm

Agreed, BCL. It has just so saddened/sickened me to see an accomplished, brilliant, dedicated, experienced, strong woman as HRC, who’s devoted her entire life to serving all the people of this country, be shoved aside and expected to kowtow to an obviously inferior male.

I watched Hillary too. Had things to do, but couldn’t turn it off.

BigCatLover 07.11.09 at 6:50 pm

Sadly, yes it does, and it probably has happened/still happens/will happen to many (or most women)in virtually all endeavors unless we keep calling out and combatting sexism/misogyny wherever we find it. It’s the reason I became an activist back in the’70s and the reason I consider PUMA PAC home. Gotta go. Memories of last August’s sham convention have made my headache worse again. BBL.

What Dances said in 250 goes for me too, but without the paint.

——–

Cinie

Fine, I’m out. I’ve done all the “good deeding” and gotten punished for it that I’m willing to stand. But, let me leave you with this, I wrote it earlier and debated posting it. But, given the way I’m feeling, I’ll share, and I’m out:

I envy you guys’ sororital spirit and your faith in sisterhood. I don’t understand it, but I envy it. Things would be much simpler if I could embrace that attitude, but I can’t. I’m tired. I can’t tell the good guys from the bad even with a scorecard. Everything’s upside down and nothing makes sense anymore.
…
I’m not being bitchy or snarky here, I’m really disillusioned and troubled. But, I recognize it’s probably just me. Don’t mean to bring anybody down, I just need to vent.
———–

Cinie, it’s good for the soul to vent. Hey, over here at PUMApac it’s a way of life. No ulcers here.

I don’t always agree with you Cinie but I sure do admire you and after reading Murphy’s posts, you are next on my list of checking out the PUMAsphere.
There is some sort of peace when you don’t have to worry if someone measures up to your standards of feminism or not, there also is a calm not worring that Pro-choice rights will be ripped out from under you four years from now.
Without worrying about these two things right now it gives us time to work on pushing all women forward instead of isolating ourselves further in society. After this election, PUMAs are isolated enough all ready.
Even here on PUMApac, far right winged people have run off almost completely. And if someone is sneaky and tries to turn us further right, all the way past pro-choice issues……….do you really think they can really herd this wild pack of cats? Ain’t gonna happen.

Cinie, I also wonder why you declare yourself as not being a feminist and yet you worry so much about Liberal Feminists being hijacked by right winged astroturfers.

Rest assured Cinie, you are among friends here, even if we are a wild bunch that think for ourselves.

#227
BCL

‘Does anyone follow Alaska politics enough to know if there is a Senate or Congressional seat opening up in the near future that Palin may be eyeing after she takes a break from the stress of dealing with the left wing attack machine’.

********************

Lisa Murkowski’s Senate seat is up for grabs in 2010.
I don’t believe that there is much love lost between SP and the Murkowski dynasty. SP up on the hill? 1600 would s*** a brick!
She would consume alot of the oxygen from Obamaland. Esp. by the time 2011 rolls around.

Funny comment from the linked interview below:

‘Palin says she even heard a rumor that she resigned because pornographic pictures of her were about to hit the Internet. This left her bemused. “Between which pregnancies did I get to pose for those?” she said sarcastically’.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/016/708gpxia.asp

re: #189 tsunami — Thanks for the NYTimes link to Cass Sunstein’s opinions in his forthcoming book “On Rumors”.

His opinions on the alleged dangers of the blogosphere are extremely alarming … if coupled with authority to convert those opinions to policy, either via the Executive branch or the Judicial branch.

I am extremely interested in this topic and rest assured that I will followup with further research.

In the meantime, there is a done-deal that everyone should be worried about, and that is the CyberSecurity policy which is a continuation of + expansion of the Bush program. It is real and it is now, and it affects anyone who visits federal government websites (xxxxxx.GOV) or emails government officials. I found it alarming enough to write a post … more here if you are interested.

ps, regarding CyberSecurity …

please note the recent news reports of cyberattacks coming from North Korea against US and South Korean websites.

The foundation is out there now, in the news, the provide a rationale for urgency for Obama’s cybersecurity czar.

Is this Obama’s yellowcake, or is it real? I do not know. I just know that I do not trust the government, and I do not trust Obama.

Juliette #261

I read on previous threads that you’re not giving up a career in lovely world of classical music to run for office in Philadelphia. I’m chagrined and CAN’T understand your decision. I could have delivered the frankford-fishington vote!

I’m gonna echo Juliette’s admiration for goofsmom and cJk (209 and 219). Goofsmom, As I posted at Cinie’s, the only label that can apply to abortion is “pro-privacy”. It’s a medical procedure and governed by HIPAA privacy regulations.
CJK, You nailed it. Sounds like you are the reincarnation of Ayn Rand. (Hope I don’t get accused of being a “right-wing infiltrate”). Rand may have provided the moral underpinnings of capitalism,but she had equal contempt for conservatives, liberals and especially collectivist “Group-Think”. I’ve started reading Rand again as an antidote to the mindless gang bangs of the political scene.

Hopepuma #158 and #183
Henry too
Spying into the private lives of these firemen who have already suffered under the initial unjust court ruling against them is just more low down dirty Chicago style politics, the kind I read and knew about early in the campaign concerning how Obama gets himself elected by any means possible. When he ran for his US Senate seat he got the private divorce papers of his opponent opened. The controversy lead his opponent to quite and the Republicans had to bring out of stater Alan Keyes in to run against O’Bully. (thats how I remember it) see July 21st edi. New Yorker Magazine “How Obama Became a Poll.”

People talk about the difference between Bush and Obama at PUMAPAC. My experience is this.
During both Bush administrations W and H Bush that is, I was fighting against many of their policies, even out on the street protesting, calling Condi Rice’s office, Sec. of Defense Rumsfeild’s and all of the dirty dealers in the Bush administration inclusing the pres. himself. My family thought I was nuts and that soon someone from the government would be charting me off to some secret detention center. Many Americans feel afraid to actively protest their govenment’s policies.
I personally never felt in dangered in anyway and knew that the fears of my family and friends were just silly.
In the Obama- “post American presidency” ( as Farid Zakaria calls it) It is no longer irrational or paranoid to be somewhat fearful of what the Obama team will do to you to shut you up or just plain get even for your desent.
During the Bush years, both W. and H., I never felt like I was viewed as the enemy. I am an American and the Bush clan in their way respected that.
Obama is quite different. From as early on as the “Joe the plummer” incident I new that this was a different America and that just being American didn’t insure you the right to even question The One.
A maximum donor for Obama who was in charge of some office in Ohio (sorry, I don’t recall the name of that gov. office) illegally leaked information from Joe T.P.’s personal files concerning child support issues. I don’t recall the woman’s name but I did contact her office to demand her resignation and tell her that she made me feel embarassed to be a democrat.
The Obama army never stopped digging for dirt on poor old Joe.
God, all the man did was ask Obama a question. And boy was Joe right about Obama’s plans being dangerous for small business owners, or hopefuls.
This is what makes Obama the most dangerous and worst thing for America. This is a Chicago insider, even worse than a Washington insider.
Obama and his thugs make me sick.
I am going to contact Sarah Palin and ask that she get behind the New Haven Fire Fighters and help stop Obama’s Stalin like tactics.
I say impeach Obama before he gets to appoint another Justice to the Supreme Court, especially since it just might be Cas Sunstien.

Since we’re all venting let me start by saying that with all of the hullaballou over a woman who is not yet even running and whose political positions are uncertain, I’ll be glad when the uber goddess Sarahissima Palin disappears to the pro-life and Republican cheering circle (as she will)in time for the 2010 elections. They’re coming up and I won’t be helping her. I understand GWB earns upwards of $100,000 per speech on the big money lecture circuit now that his term is over. Big names raise big money and the Republicans will get a lot of money out of Palin appearances. It’s a win win all around. Helping Palin to help Gingrich and Trent Lott, Phyllis Schlafly and all of the people who helped screw me for decades is not what I signed up for when I declared myself a puma and a democrat that wanted to hold the party accountable. And that is exactly what I see happening now that Palin has resigned. I simply won’t be part of the republican astroturfing machine.
Apparently, just getting this woman going no matter the cost to one’s principles is the new agenda. I still have some principles that mean a lot to me, regardless of any sense of betrayal this election cycle has made me feel. To me no party partisanship doesn’t mean no ideology, or check my beliefs at the door. Others, I’m sure, feel differently.
And speaking of The New Agenda, they have a group of women under the “big tent” who are politically paralyzed by the extremes of positions on baseline issues such as pro-choice v pro-life. When one suggests the right wingers taken up the male oppression within their own churches they decline because they really need numbers to do that but they also don’t want their religions to be criticized or even challenged. Oh well. They have a spokesperson who speaks for them and basically get nothing done.
Of course, Pumapac will say this will never happen but when one simply must remain mum on on controversial positions in order to swell the ranks and get along, well, that’s just not for me. Plenty of pumas already share Palin’s positions on choice, guns, war, environment, and whatever else, (since I don’t know the full range of what she believes).
For those pumas getting behind Palin is no stretch whatsoever. There will be no problems for them no matter what the outcome of the congressional elections and presidential elections in 2012. Some pumas won’t even care if the 2012 president selects a carbon copy of Clarence Thomas for the SC.
Can’t see my future with Palin. Sorry.

Now, where do I, a disaffected democrat fit into all of this Palin mania? Nowhere. There are plenty of candidates that I can make common cause with besides SP.

BillieJo
Your t-shirts are beautiful!!

I’ve made one or two ERA, and slogan t-shirts for the store on cafepress… but want to change the name of it before posting the link.

I had to redo most of the designs I uploaded that had images… due to copyright infringement. So I started all over again. Mine are just text right now… when I find the time, I’ll redo with images.

Meanwhile, again, your t-shirts are beeeeeyooooootiiiiiiful!

back to painting.

MKfromLA
#223 BigCatLover

bottom line is that you must form coalitions in order to win power and achieve your goals as a group

Agree, but only to the point where coalitions do share some agendas or goals, and do not find abhorrent those goals that are not shared.
************************************
Yes, that’s what I said.

Ms Uppity has a great photo of Baracko dressed up as the POPE on it:

http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com/

PUMAbear 07.11.09 at 9:03 pm

Since we’re all venting let me start by saying that with all of the hullaballou over a woman who is not yet even running and whose political positions are uncertain, I’ll be glad when the uber goddess Sarahissima Palin disappears to the pro-life and Republican cheering circle (as she will)in time for the 2010 elections. They’re coming up and I won’t be helping her. I understand GWB earns upwards of $100,000 per speech on the big money lecture circuit now that his term is over. Big names raise big money and the Republicans will get a lot of money out of Palin appearances. It’s a win win all around. Helping Palin to help Gingrich and Trent Lott, Phyllis Schlafly and all of the people who helped screw me for decades is not what I signed up for when I declared myself a puma and a democrat that wanted to hold the party accountable. And that is exactly what I see happening now that Palin has resigned. I simply won’t be part of the republican astroturfing machine.
************************************
If this happens, I’m with you 100% and I believe other pumas are too. I think you misunderstand and over estimate the excitement for the possibilities that Palin might achieve with Sarah worship.

#275 Deadgirl

Oh so glad I am not alone on this!

sniff

Murphy,additional to my #277,

Don’t worry, Phyllis won’t hate you. She will agree that it will be a good idea for all of us to work toward a more perfect union.

AniEm #268

The Frankford-Fishing vote sounds very tempting, but I don’t think I have the stomach for public office.
I was offered a position as an appointed committee person by a women who worked very hard on HRC campaign, as most public officials in my district did. I had to turn it down and told her that I just could not work anymore for a party that had Barak Obama as it’s leader. She understood.
I think what is more important right now, especially since our elected representatives seem to becoming irrelevant and their authority is soon to be usurped by czars, is that private citizens must be urged to pay attention and become active in demanding that their democracy and rights be preserved.
“Educate and Inform the whole mass of the people; they are the only sure reliance of our preservation of liberty.”
Thomas Jefferson

Juliette,

Good for you. I’m glad to hear these little stories of triumph and resistance, given all-out Obamania. It’s interesting to know that your political co-worker “understood”. There’s an undertone that, if you don’t support Obama, you’ll be sent to the gulag or something. Very creepy. Some kind of trespass occurred in the Joe-the-Plumber scenario that violated everyone’s civil rights. I love the Jefferson quote but I’m definitely guilty of being undereducated politically and am trying to read more to catch up. Blogs like this are a god-send to me.

correction ….

The second statement refers to women who agree that lesbians or non-mothers are NOT WOMEN.

A few of Schlafly’s governmental agenda items from the Eagle Forum 2005 position statement

Phyllis on gawd.

Congress should pass a law providing that federal judges have no power to ban the Pledge of Allegiance, the Ten Commandments, and other public acknowledgments of God by public officials or on public property. Rep. Todd Akin’s (R-MO) bill to protect the Pledge of Allegiance passed the House in the fall of 2004, but the Senate took no action, so it must be reintroduced and passed again in 2005. We also support Rep. Robert Aderholt’s (R-AL) bill to protect the Ten Commandments from federal judges.

Phyllis on Title IX

Title IX. The Bush Administration and Congress should fix the injustices caused by the feminist-enforced Title IX quotas, which specify that the proportion of men to women who participate in competitive sports cannot exceed their proportional enrollment in college. This quota system (not created by the law, but by Carter and Clinton feminists) has caused the senseless elimination of hundreds of men’s college teams (such as 171 wrestling teams), and unless Bush or Congress takes action to stop this nonsense, high school sports are next on the feminists’ hit list.

In his first Administration, President Bush appointed a commission to deal with the Title IX injustices, but he foolishly put feminists on it, and that mistake prevented any action to remedy the problem. Now, the Bush Justice Department is before the Supreme Court trying to get activist judges to expand the mischief of Title IX by creating a new cause of action to allow lawsuits to be filed against high schools.

Phyllis on science instruction in schools

National Science Tests. Eagle Forum supports repealing the language of the No Child Left Behind Act which mandates science standards beginning in 2005-2006, and science testing beginning in 2007-2008 for grades 3 through 5, grades 6 through 9, and grades 10 through 12. The science testing requirement, which was inserted into the law at the very end of conference negotiations without debate, opens the door for national test standards to enforce the teaching of evolution. The version that passed the House did not include this requirement, and most Congressmen believed that the law would require testing only for reading and math. The Daschle-Kennedy Senate inserted the harmful science testing provision, which could compel new evolution indoctrination for eight-year-olds nationwide.

http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/2005/jan05/psrjan05.html

Let’s everybody give a warm welcome to the housewife from Alton Ill.

AniEm #288

Yes Aniem, nearly all of the democratic committee people in my district were horified at the thought of Obama being our president. At that time most of them believed that McCain would win as did I. Then came the orchestrated Banking collaspe in late September, only eight weeks before the election. McCain was blind sided by the Bush administrations- Pelosi, Reid and Emanuel cartel. The far right hated McCain so much I am convinced that they conspired with Pelosi, Reid and Emanuel to knock him out eight weeks before the elecion. Notice how an administration hell bent on holding Bush and Cheney accountable for war crimes, has folded again and again on that crusade.

I think PUMAPAC is a great place to stay informd of political policies.
You can also sign-u for Megavote and get email alerts about every bill being brought up for vote by Congress.

http://www.politicsol.com/megavote/2007-06-25.html

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I read an article with an opposing view Cinie. I’ll try to find it for you.

“por-life views.” Oh God, to many typos to correct.
As Persephone’s grandmother would say- “Its time to get out of the computer.”

I have run across some very unpleasant Obots, on the attack of Mayara Tavares. Everything from claims that BO was oogling because she was barefoot to hyping the video, claiming he was looking at the woman behind them. Some claim she is 17 instead of 16 and the obots are hyping. I found most websites posting her picture without the video being blocked as “attack” sites.

Bad News. Google Mayara Tavares.

Juliette 07.11.09 at 10:49 pm

nearly all of the democratic committee people in my district were horified at the thought of Obama being our president. At that time most of them believed that McCain would win as did I. Then came the orchestrated Banking collaspe in late September, only eight weeks before the election. McCain was blind sided by the Bush administrations- Pelosi, Reid and Emanuel cartel.

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I gotta put my tinfoil hat on for this comment, but I have always felt that the economy going into the dumper all of a sudden before the end of the election was partly manipulated by obots on wall street. I know they didn’t have total control over the economy, but when all the MSM said the Jackass staying out of DC and continuing the campaign speeches was showing that he knew the most about the way to run the country…it sounded like such bs…then every time McCain gained a point up, the stock market would tank again.