If the Left Isn’t Dead Yet, Somebody Should Kill It

by murphy on June 2, 2009

in Brand Obama,CRACKLE!,Denver,Gropergate,Hillary Clinton,Homofauxbama*,Jackass,Media Bias,profound question of the day,Puma PAC,PUMAsphere,Sexist Onslaught,Swamp Misogyny,teh BOIZ,The Habit of Freedom,Why Don't You Take a Long Walk Off a Short Pier?

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If you weren’t sure if the far left is as woman-hating as the far right, read THIS.

I guess the way it works is the Right hates women in theory and the left hates women in practice. What does a liberal man call a woman who disagrees with him? A Bitch. Sometimes a Cunt. Usually not a Dyke because that would sound homophobic and Liberal Men know that only the Right is supposed to be homophobic. If there was no such thing as gay men then you can be SURE that Liberal Men would call women they disagree with Dykes (they actually do call us Dykes of course; it’s just that they have to mask the insult so as not to come across as right-wing. When Liberal Men accused us of “Needing Some Penis” and worse, what they were really calling us was Dykes.)

Right wing woman-hating takes form as curbs on freedom, patriarchal systems of thought which relegate men and women to different (and VERY unequal) spheres (although now that I try to think of examples here in the USA, I’m drawing a blank. I suppose the obvious example is conservative Christianity, in which women have the defined and limiting role of wife-mother-nurturer, but even among Republicans, very conservative Christianity is a minority position. Oy vey.) Or perhaps it’s that the right is hampered by its own sense of decorum from allowing the ugliest forms of woman-hating (as perfectly practiced by Mr. Liberal Guy Cimbalo) the light of day. I do not know.

This confusion is only heightened by the news that Dick Cheney has more respect for the equal civil rights of lesbians and gay men than the Democratic president does.

Or perhaps, though this thought is just too verboten for me to type out withuot a typo, the Right is politically and philosophically more hospitable to women?? Somebody quick remind me of examples of how misogynistic the right is.

But I do know that the only people publishing their own explicit and explicitly violent rape and murder fantasies in mainstream and almost mainstream media outlets are liberal Democrats like:

Severe and mounting pain in my throbbing head, along with a desire to do physical harm to freaks like Seitzman et al, prevent me from continuing with the list. But trust me, it is a LONG list.

Repeat after me: Liberals are NOT feminists. Liberals do NOT believe women and girls are as human as men and boys. Liberals do NOT view the world through women’s eyes — they don’t even view it through gender-blind eyes. They use vicious, violent rhetoric and imagery to muzzle and humiliate women. I’m not a conservative or a Republican and I’m a devout atheist so I have very little experience with how the right goes about hating women, but George W. Bush on a ham sandwich, nobody does it better than the goddamned Left.

Wake up Women. The Democratic Party is not your home. Liberal values do not include you.

p.s. Tennessee Guerilla Women, god bless her soul, had her heart in the right place 16 months ago, when she hoped “Bitch” could become a term of endearment or even power for women. But, she was wrong. When LIBERAL DEMOCRATS called Hillary a Bitch, they meant BITCH, they didn’t mean You Go, Girl.

Those insults, murder, and rape fantasies against Clinton, Palin, and us Pumas (reminder of what they called us last year HERE. yep, and even more HERE and HERE . Oh what the heck, since we’re taking a walk down Memory Nightmare Lane, you ought to revisit THIS POST from two days after Denver.) were from LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, and in most cases were spewed AT LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC WOMEN. So someone please remind me why I’m supposed to give a flying fuck what any Liberal Democrat has to say or thinks?

We live in the United States of Absurdia.

Tagged as: A List Bloggers Huffington Post, Barack Obama, Dick Cheney gay marriage, feminism, Hillary Clinton, Obama followers and Puma, sexist attacks on Sarah Palin

{ 1 trackback }

Playboy: Now With More Misogyny! : Jenn Q. Public: 06.02.09 at 9:59 pm

{ 206 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Juliette 06.02.09 at 7:36 pm: Wow Murphy

Thank you for expressing in this post what I’ve been feeling for the last year and a half.

What has become of liberalism is frightening. When did liberal decide to love terrorists and hate women.
True the republicans or conservatives can be sexist, but sexism is not misogyny and what we have been seeing on the left is misogyny-a irrational hatred of women. I think that alot of the sexism on the right comes from the ols fachion idea that women are weaker and need to be protected. That is pretty benign compared to wanting to hate f**k them.
I am utterly sickened by these new urban liberals. Where does it leave people like me who have been calling myself a liberal and voting democrat or for Nader up until my protest vote for McCain?
I am really just about ready to register as a democrat simply because they are looking a lot classier than people on the left, who seem totally O.K with the prospect of America becoming a Muslim nation.

Great post Murphy.
2 Juliette 06.02.09 at 7:38 pm: Corrections to post 1

old fashion

I am really just about to register as a republican…..(not democrat)
3 admin 06.02.09 at 7:40 pm: it leaves you a Puma juliette!

freudian slip?
“I am really just about ready to register as a democrat simply because they are looking a lot classier than people on the left,”
4 boogieman7167 06.02.09 at 7:42 pm: Murphy excellent post keep up the good work
5 GOSUEF4HIL 06.02.09 at 7:44 pm: Here Marc Rubin sums up Obama’s inability to defend Sotomayor:

http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/

Not really related but another typical Obama posture
6 Juliette 06.02.09 at 7:45 pm: No admin
not a Fruedian slip. I meant I am very close to becoming a republican.
I might become an Independent but I’ll have look into how that will affect my voting in the primaries. Not that voting in the primaries meant anything this time around.
7 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 7:45 pm: What about liberal women… do we hate women too? Or is “liberal” a term for men only?

clicked that first PumaPAClink and got hung up in the comments.
Snowtiger never did give the answer to his question:

“‘I am afraid of women. Women and the police.’
Puma prize to anyone who can name the movie I just quoted.”

If anyone sees snow around… please ask. I neeeeeeed to know.
8 DeadGirl 06.02.09 at 7:52 pm: What these so-called liberal males with the hate-f*ck fantasies for right wing females need, are firehose enema’s… funny what they want to do with women that they do not agree with… do you think they are having feelings of inadequacy and impotence due to the existence of women who they cannot dominate/control?

What it really is, is indication of extreme immaturity. Seems they are underdeveloped in a few areas, predominately in their breeches.
9 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 7:53 pm: I received a piece of mail from Claire McCaskill yesterday I could see a smear reference to rush limpberger on the back of the envelope..I walked to the trash barrel and slipped it in. No joy no satisfaction just disgust that I didn’t even care to open it. I am no longer a Democrat.
10 DeadGirl 06.02.09 at 7:55 pm: Dances, I do not think we can even consider them to be “liberals” in the traditional sense, or the modern sense. What they are, is immature, underdeveloped morons with violent sexual fantasy’s and issues around control. Malignant Narcissism is probably a factor with more than a few.
11 admin 06.02.09 at 7:59 pm: Sure there’s plenty of Liberal Women, and they’re allowed in the Club as long as they keep their mouths shut. If they don’t, they can expect to be treated like Geraldine Ferraro and Pumas.
12 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 8:01 pm: RUSH HOUR 2

Dances oh Dances Oh Dances what is my prize????
13 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 8:01 pm: I’m not sure I know who I am any more. The DP gift to me (us?) last year was an identity crisis. I think it’s just getting worser and worser. Confusion is a very good thing because it means all options are open. Soemone remind me to send the new vile DP, media, and obots, a thank you note.
14 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 8:03 pm: HP Boston 06.02.09 at 8:01 pm
RUSH HOUR 2
Dances oh Dances Oh Dances what is my prize????
—————
HP SmartyPants,
Sorry. That was snowtiger’s contest… you’ll have to ask him.
15 GOSUEF4HIL 06.02.09 at 8:04 pm: and thankfully Hillary speaks out for the gay community- hopefully they are taking a look at Obama’s many empty promises to them- note the last sentence of this article:

http://www.towleroad.com/2009/06/hillary-clinton-recognizes-stonewall-gay-and-lesbian-pride-month-.html
16 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 8:07 pm: If the Left Isn’t Dead Yet, Somebody Should Kill ItJun 2, 2009 … “’I am afraid of women. Women and the police.’ Puma prize to anyone who can name the movie I just quoted.” …
pumapac.org/2009/06/02/if-the-left-isnt-dead-yet-somebody-should-kill-it/comment-page-1/ – 11 minutes ago – Similar pages
17 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 8:14 pm: Snowtiger never did give the answer to his question:

“‘I am afraid of women. Women and the police.’
Puma prize to anyone who can name the movie I just quoted.”
18 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 8:15 pm: DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 8:03 pm

Dances see my post #16
I just copied and pasted it off of GOOGLE!! It was there exactly as you said it……
19 Headclunker 06.02.09 at 8:15 pm: When someone calls me a bitch, I tell them that THEY can put a capital B on it and say it with RESPECT.
20 admin 06.02.09 at 8:17 pm: HP, you watched RUSH HOUR 2 ?!?!?!?
21 admin 06.02.09 at 8:18 pm: yeah, and behind your back they’ll say — but she’s actually a BITCH, not a Bitch.
22 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 8:19 pm: I just copied and pasted it off of GOOGLE!!
————-
Google isn’t a credible entity :p
23 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 8:20 pm: liberal boys killed the left
24 Boston Boomer 06.02.09 at 8:23 pm: Whoa! Powerful post Murphy. And you’re absolutely right. If liberal men could get away with it, they would treat us just like the Afghan men treat the women who protested that rape law. I owe the left and the DNC nothing, nothing at all!
25 Boston Boomer 06.02.09 at 8:24 pm: I should have put liberal men in quotes. The ones I’m talking about (they call themselves progressive) really aren’t liberal at all.
26 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 8:25 pm: nah I got that off google
You can find us on google too They alread have If the left isn’t dead yet someone shoul kill it! listed by Puma….shock!
27 BillieJo 06.02.09 at 8:25 pm: Murphy
LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, and in most cases were spewed AT LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC WOMEN. So someone please remind me why I’m supposed to give a flying fuck what any Liberal Democrat has to say or thinks?
—–
A big YUP, and precisely why it is so ridiculous for those PUMAs on the blog to rail against us that attend tea parties and say we are playing to the AstroTurf of the right just cause they may have bought the plastic tableware and invitations.

Fuckum all, all political parties treat women like crap, and every day you wake up forgetting that the flippin’ ERA has still not been ratified for women, is another day you are living in a fantasy land. We have a lot of work to do passing those last 3 or 4 lame-assed states, until then…no on had better praise any party to me.
28 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 8:26 pm: 20
admin 06.02.09 at 8:17 pm

HP, you watched RUSH HOUR 2 ?!?!?!?

No but I did see Rush Hour!
29 persephone 06.02.09 at 8:29 pm: June 2, 2009, 7:39 pm
Obama Says U.S. Could Be Seen as a Muslim Country, Too
By Jeff Zeleny

HAHN, Germany — As President Obama prepared to leave Washington to fly to the Middle East, he conducted several television and radio interviews at the White House to frame the goals for a five-day trip, including the highly-anticipated speech Thursday at Cairo University in Egypt.

In an interview with Laura Haim on Canal Plus, a French television station, Mr. Obama noted that the United States also could be considered as “one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/02/obama-signals-themes-of-mideast-speech/?hp
30 Susan5 06.02.09 at 8:30 pm: I just saw on Fox News that today is the 56th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth’s coronation. And The One and his French Counterpart didn’t invite her to the D-Day anniversary. She lived through it and I forgot who mentioned the part about the car picking her up and dropping her off at the Air Base, but my mother often talked about this. My mother’s admiration for the Royal Family was well founded. They provided strength and encouragement to the British people during one of their most terrifying periods in history.
I became an Independent because I couldn’t stomach what happened to the Democratic Party and the nastiness that was overtaking it. I too worked at the PA and RI( where I got to meet Chelsea Clinton. She is a fantasic young woman and I can’t wait until she runs for office.) primaries and had first-hand confrontations with the Obots who thought they were speaking for all Democrats. I also saw Hillary when she came to RI, the one who would have and should have been President. I will never “get over it” or forget the treachery.
31 persephone 06.02.09 at 8:30 pm: repost from 29

In an interview with Laura Haim on Canal Plus, a French television station, Mr. Obama noted that the United States also could be considered as “one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.”
32 Cape Hatteras 06.02.09 at 8:32 pm: I saw the Playboy “list” last night . The swine have tried to remove it but it has gone viral . Their dirty pants are exposed to the world.
The Left now is a horrible mutation of the grand Liberal ideals of freedom ,fairness, reform and justice .
A set of very resentfull people has come into power . Now the movement is about resentment censorship REVENGE and above all else POWER.
These swine were happy to use women to help gain power . They have shown little interest in sharing the spoils of victory .
33 BillieJo 06.02.09 at 8:34 pm: We have a lot of work to do passing those last 3 or 4 lame-assed states, until then no one had better praise any party to me.

oooooooooooo, again those stupid ‘e’s are falling off words, what’s up with my keyboard???
34 antifish 06.02.09 at 8:38 pm: In an interview with Laura Haim on Canal Plus, a French television station, Mr. Obama noted that the United States also could be considered as “one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.”
______________

So WTF? Are we surrounded by closet Muslims like him? Great!
35 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 8:39 pm: BillieJo 06.02.09 at 8:34 pm

My keyboard is broken too if I didn’t have spellcheck to put those damn letters in the right place shezzzzzz
36 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 8:40 pm: So WTF? Are we surrounded by closet Muslims like him? Great!

They are under every rock…
37 admin 06.02.09 at 8:40 pm: hiya Boston Boomer!

persephone, just what we freaking need right now in the world — the normalization of fundamentalist religion. especially the most virulent islamic kind.
38 antifish 06.02.09 at 8:40 pm: Persephone, seriously? When I read that quote my skin literally crawled and the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. OMG!
39 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 8:41 pm: BilliJo
Th absnc of th fifth lttr of th alphbt sms to b a
contagious virus… and you sm to b sprading it
40 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 8:44 pm: DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 8:41 pm

BilliJo

It is a pandemic of soum sort……..falling e’s and lopped off t’s……..
41 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 8:45 pm: How many muslim citizens are there in the US? I know it is the fastest growing religion on the planet.
42 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 8:48 pm: The one thing that I think is cool about being a Muslim is dropping a rug in the middle of a parking lot, or at the supermarket dairy case, or anywhere, for that matter, to pray six times a day.
43 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 8:48 pm: DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 8:45 pm

How many muslim citizens are there in the US? I know it is the fastest growing religion on the planet.
=================================================
Who really knows the lies are huge and it not a religion but an abomination filled with lunatic murderers.
44 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 8:49 pm: the supermarket dairy case = cool
45 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 8:49 pm
46 BillieJo 06.02.09 at 8:52 pm: Murph-
persephone, just what we freaking need right now in the world — the normalization of fundamentalist religion. especially the most virulent islamic kind.
———
I have come to the conclusion that ALL religions are a lame-assed excuse for world wide groups to sanction the passing on men’s sperm while they ‘morally’ keep women under their thumb in society.
I dare anyone to name a religion where women are treated equal.

….nothing yet?

…still waiting….
47 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 8:54 pm: Buddhism
48 ChristineRI 06.02.09 at 8:55 pm: ‘the Right is politically and philosophically more hospitable to women??’
****************************

Yes.
49 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 8:55 pm: Wicca
50 BillieJo 06.02.09 at 8:58 pm: DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 8:54 pm

Buddhism
——–
Are you sure of that in society Dances? I know Tibetan Nuns do not have the same rights as the Monks, nor status. A good friend (faculty member) was there twice teaching the monks and it didn’t sound quite equal, but much better than most.
51 Boston Boomer 06.02.09 at 8:59 pm: Hi Murphy!
52 BillieJo 06.02.09 at 8:59 pm: ChristineRI 06.02.09 at 8:55 pm

‘the Right is politically and philosophically more hospitable to women??’
****************************

Yes.
———–
How so?
The right trashes Hillary and 20 million Republicans stayed home from voting and many because they would not vote for Sarah Palin.
53 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 9:00 pm: BillieJo 06.02.09 at 8:58 pm
DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 8:54 pm
Buddhism
——–
Are you sure of that in society Dances?
——————-
It might depend on the branch or sect of Buddhism.
54 TexasTigress 06.02.09 at 9:10 pm: Billie Jo- DUH .
The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

http://www.venganza.org/about/
55 TexasTigress 06.02.09 at 9:12 pm: More on the Flying Spaghetti Monster

http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/
56 TexasTigress 06.02.09 at 9:14 pm: Favorite line from the open letter about the Flying Spaghetti Monster (god) to the Kansas School Board …

“P.S. I have included an artistic drawing of Him creating a mountain, trees, and a midget. Remember, we are all His creatures.”
57 Cinie 06.02.09 at 9:15 pm: Just as bad as the overt anti-woman stuff is the more subtle, but not quite subtle enough, June Cleaver-ization of “femininity.” Radical working mother Michelle O, is now, acceptable “Mom-in-Chief.” Women’s organizations swoon over their Prince Charming damsel-in-distress rescuer. Same with African Americans. Old civil rights standard activism is now unseemly, old school, unacceptable. They’re marching everybody backwards.
58 Juliette 06.02.09 at 9:20 pm: Dances
I don’t know much about Buddism but I once heard the Dahli Lama speak about Democracy. He said it was not a good system because it invites foreign influence into elections. After what we witnessed in our presidential election, with Obama’s 700 million + war chest that came from who know where, I have to admitt that The Dahli Lama had a valid point.
59 Juliette 06.02.09 at 9:36 pm: BillieJo #46

I dare anyone to name a religion where women are treted equal.
————————————————————–
Wow, I know I am gonna take some heat for this; but Christianity.
Yes Christianity, the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Jesus loved women and defended women, unlike Mohammed who hated them.

People seem to lump all religion together with Churchs and religious institutions.

Still and all I am Catholic and proud to be one. I almost never attend church but understand the importance of having a powerful religious institution such as the Catholic Church who might just be our last bulwark against Islam.
At the time of the Hollocast, Jews had no powerful religious institution to protect them. Since then they have created institutions such as the Center For A New American Century, AIPAC and others.

I think that trashing all religions at a time when Islam is once again poised to take over the world, is a bad idea. Saudi Arabia beheaded 202 people last year, some for the crime of adultary! This is as prescribed by the Koran.
I thought it was quite couragious and correct of Pope Benedict XVI to echo the words of a Greek Orthodox Emperor,” the only new Mohammed brought to religion is evil.”
60 Juliette 06.02.09 at 9:37 pm: “the only THING new Mohammed brought to religion is evil.”
61 Patty 06.02.09 at 9:45 pm: Great thread Murphy!
62 TexasTigress 06.02.09 at 9:45 pm: Posters on The Advocate don’t seem to be all that impressed with Obama’s Proclamation for Pride …

People everywhere are starting to wake up …
63 BillieJo 06.02.09 at 9:46 pm: Juliette 06.02.09 at 9:36 pm

BillieJo #46

I dare anyone to name a religion where women are treted equal.
————————————————————–
Wow, I know I am gonna take some heat for this; but Christianity.
Yes Christianity, the teachings of Jesus Christ.
———-
I’m not gonna trash your religious beliefs Juliette, but being an ex-Catholic I do not see the same respect for women that Jesus was reported as having in their Bible compared to how the church treats it’s women.

What about women’s pro-choice issues? How about my aunt that was a good Catholic that had miscarriage after miscarriage, was told it would kill her if she kept getting pg…rh negative blood, etc…even wrote to the Pope to ask if she could use birth control…………..he said no.

How equal is the hierarchy of the church, how many women have become Pope?
What about stem cell research? No one is half cooking babies to kill them for their stem cells.
My list is much longer, but I will stop here.
——-
The Catholic religion has too many things that kick women in the ass.
I am not expecting an answer on these things, just things I think treat women unfairly.
64 TexasTigress 06.02.09 at 9:46 pm: http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid87603.asp#Receipt
oops
65 Juliette 06.02.09 at 10:03 pm: BillieJo #63

I totally support your right to speak out agaist any current or former practises of the Catholic Church. This is something that I personally find constructive and not destructive. The thing about Christianity and the Catholic church is that you can question. You will not get your head chopped of for it I assure you. Of course the Church is pro-life but they have also stood firmly against the death penalty and Pope John Paul II was the first world leader to firmly speak out against the war in Iraq back when it started in 1990.

Most importantly, and I think it bares repeating. With O’Burka in the White House I feel safer knowing the Catholic Church, with all it’s flaws is there. I repeat that it is the worlds last bulwark against Islam.
66 greenfun 06.02.09 at 10:08 pm: Paul Street writes about “Age of Obama as a Potentially Teach-able Moment for The Left”
Tue, 06/02/2009 – 4:25pm — jawbone
This essay opens with a long list of disappointing actions taken and promises broken by the Obama administration in its first very few months. Of course there were indications of this and warnings given, but few of these received any broad coverage and most people believed they were voting for real change and had real hope. It is difficult to accept there will be little change and admit to loss of that hope. Read more…

http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/21576
67 Juliette 06.02.09 at 10:10 pm: BillieJo

Just one more point. The Catholic church is not against stem cell research, but embryonic stem cell research.

Dr. Oz recently exposed new research studies that show that possible treatments that involve embryonic stem cells are much more dangerous than ones using other stem cells. This is because embryonic stem cells have not yet differentiated and decided what the will become. Thats leaves the possibility that they will become cancer-not a good thing.
68 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 10:25 pm: The Catholic Church is a patriarchy…it demeans and pushes women to the back of the bus. It interferes with my life and every other non catholic by pushing its beliefs on us from banning books to birth control. I want all religions to stay out of my life and my business, keep your religion in your church and out of my government. All religions are gangs and cliques, a club to belong to if you can believe in the cult..they breed hate and distrust only the believers are allowed into their idea of heaven…everyone else is dirt! I know I lived it! War is either about religion or oil…control!
69 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 10:28 pm: Dr. Oz lol he is a joke! IMO
70 Deb55 06.02.09 at 10:38 pm: Great Posting…sad where we find ourselves as women today.

Read the French “O” interview and America is done. The full interview is now own line…and I want be shocked anymore if he admits everything in Egypt..He is speaking at Cairo Un…the largest and oldest mosq. in the world..they leave that part out. Had to read about that in Egypt paper!

Here is the transcript.

http://www.enewspf.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7957:transcript-of-interview-of-president-obama-by-laura-haim-canal-plus-june-1-2009&catid=88888983:latest-national-news&Itemid=88889930

Also check out Jake Trapper..abc.com today..talking about “O’s” staff speaking about his Muslim past. They are no longer hiding, things they did in the past. He seemed shocked, the truth is coming soon.
71 PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 10:43 pm: Juliette,

I don’t think the catholic church in Franco’s Spain or Pope Pius XII did much for the Jews during WWII. Much of the church hierarchy supports fascism, helped forcible jewish conversions and assisted the escape of nazi war criminals. The church opposes women’s rights, birth control, supports poverty and military fascism all over latin america.
72 Ario 06.02.09 at 10:44 pm: hey guys

sandipuma is ok..swelling went down…they are gonna run more tests…send out prayers or whatever for her…

laterz!
73 mslas4hillary 06.02.09 at 10:45 pm: Great post hit the nail right on the head. Though I have to say I don’t think liberal men care about if what they call us make them look homophobic. They don’t care about anyone but themselves (most of them atleast)
74 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 10:46 pm: Deb55 06.02.09 at 10:38 pm

He is an abomination, the lies were barely hidden . Remember when Stepsalotinit corrected O’shithead when he said Muslim instead of Christian..George knew, they all know, liars and traitors one and all….
75 Juliette 06.02.09 at 10:47 pm: Hp Boston

The Catholic church is out of your life it you don’t want it there. They never have made it impossible for you to read any book you want to or practise birth control. They were totally right about embryonic stem cell research, but the radical left will never admitt it even it was exposed by Dr.Oz to be dangerous.
This idea that wars are fought because of religion is ridiculous. Islam is not a religion it’s a disease.
If you really want to find a common denominator in every war, other than the desire to control natural resources, it is testosterone. Do you really think that men were not going around raping and pilaging before they were sophisticated enough to have religioun. Come on.
76 PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 10:48 pm: When has agitation for “rights” ever come from the “right”?

The genteel southerners treated their “Scarlets” with great manners while hyprocritically opposing rights, raped and bred their slaves, opposed the vote, opposed the ERA, opposed choice, opposed education for women.

They may do it more politely, but they do it very well.
77 Juliette 06.02.09 at 10:49 pm: enough to have religion
78 honora 06.02.09 at 10:50 pm: I think that BillieJo was talking about the teachings of Jesus and not Christianity the way it is defined by male-dominated institutions. Jesus really did treat women with the same respect that he treated men, the stupid men took control of the religion and that is where we are now.

All the talk about how wonderful Buddhism is , but the countries that practice Buddhism do not treat women very well. Those countries have also treated enemies in very inhumane ways. Of course, the religion should not be judged by the weakness of the followers but that is what we do with Christian churches all the time. I am Catholic and many things about it drive me crazy, I am American and many things about it drive me crazy, I was a Democrat and many things about it drove my crazy, so I left. Now, I am a PUMA and all is well. I guess the institutions that really mean something to me are worth working with and trying to salvage, the DNC is trash.

PS, I totally agree that the Catholic church should try to ‘save’ Catholics and leave others alone, and I say so all the time in my parish. I am not always popular, but we as a small faith group really do make a difference in the world around us. I believe that we should ‘convince’ people by the acts we do and not by force. I think that the majority of America’s Catholics would fit in very well at PUMApac. The hierarchy, not so much.

IIRC, the ‘Dali Lama’ has to be male, kinda like the pope. I also googled women in Buddhism and it does not all sound so perfect.
79 catsden 06.02.09 at 10:51 pm: Yahoo News has just posted a story saying the debris from the Air France plane has been spotted and they are searching for the black box.

“The cause of the crash will not be known until the black boxes are recovered — which could take days or weeks. But weather and aviation experts are focusing on the possibility of a collision with a brutal storm that sent winds of 100 mph (160 km/h) straight into the airliner’s path.

“The airplane was flying at 500 mph (800 km/h) northeast and the air is coming at them at 100 mph,” said AccuWeather.com senior meteorologist Henry Margusity. “That probably started the process that ended up in some catastrophic failure of the airplane.”

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/brazil_plane
80 admin 06.02.09 at 10:51 pm: I agree with you Juliette that testosterone is the main ingredient in war, but it’s also the main ingredient in religion.

all fundamentalist religions suck. but islam sucks the most because it is presently the most rabidly dangerous, aggressive, and oppressive. gotta go back in the ole time machine to really feel a threat from fundamentalist christianity.

unless you happen to be exercising your Constitutional rights in Wichita that is of course.

or in California.
81 PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 10:53 pm: I’m still trying to think of what social progress was made for the poor, immigrants, women, minorities. White men, or whoever held power did OK under the right.

It’s only within the last couple of generatons that the Catholic church has lost its grip on the people. The evangelicals want to pick up where they left off.
82 catsden 06.02.09 at 10:58 pm: murphy, I admire your post and the recognition that women are now free to determine for themselves who/what will best serve their interests as human beings.
83 PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 10:58 pm: American or Western aggression is no longer cloaked in religion, although some in the military view the wars in the middle east to be holy wars, it’s cloaked in corporatism and militarism.

I’m sure the victims of Western exploitation and colonialism around the world didn’t doubt the capacity and capability of military aggression.
84 PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 10:59 pm: I should say the conquest of the new world was a religious conquest, conquest for Christ.
85 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 11:00 pm: The Catholic church is out of your life it you don’t want it there. They never have made it impossible for you to read any book you want to or practise birth control
====================================
Bull shit I grew up in Boston in the 50ties..the Catholic church ruled the whole damn city!! Books were sytematically banned in Boston and forget about having any catholic doctor assist in any kind of birth control! You were perceived to be totally faithless and weird if you ate meat on Fridays and god forbid I enter your church or you enter mine…forbidden!
Kids were chased away from the catholic church if sitting on the steps waiting for the Sunday school kids to come out to go to the movies…I learned early to mistrust ALL religions.
86 PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 11:03 pm: It may be the testosterone that drives much of the conquest and aggression but often the estrogen driven benefit from what they do and wouldn’t necessarily have it any other way.
87 catsden 06.02.09 at 11:04 pm: PUMAbear: much as I hate to disagree with you, the Catholic Church has not lost its grip on the people – in this country or in Central and South America. The Church sits on a massive hidden library, museum and warehouse of icons, art, stolen wealth from around the world. I do not believe that Jesus told his followers to horde the money and leave the poor to scrape a living on faith. When the Pope follows the model of St. Francis and gives up his wealth to minister to the suffering in the world, my respect for Catholicism may rise from zero to ten. Not to leave out other Christian Churches whose main objective still seems to convert rather than to minister.
88 Juliette 06.02.09 at 11:04 pm: honora #78

Thank you for that!
I agree that most Catholics would feel right at home here at Puma and would be forgiving of the many anti-Catholic rants.
Catholics make up the most liberal voting demographic in the country; I think that goes to show that we are free thinkers and free to think. I said that I really don’t know so much about Buddism but here is what I found concerning their history and the Dalai Lama.

http://www.chinadaily.cn/cndy/2007-11/14/content_6252509.htm
89 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 11:05 pm: PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 10:53 pm

I’m still trying to think of what social progress was made for the poor, immigrants, women, minorities. White men, or whoever held power did OK under the right.

It’s only within the last couple of generations that the Catholic church has lost its grip on the people. The evangelicals want to pick up where they left off.

===================================
I agree PB…we are now in the grip of another power group OF MEN who want to control all the little peon people because that gives them POWER!! All religions are men and power….
90 PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 11:06 pm: Tell me, what does the “right” want?

I think I know what they don’t want, but not what they want.
91 PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 11:09 pm: To me, all religions want self-perpetuation, power, dominion. The disenfranchisement of women within faith enhances the power and prestige of the men, so they are drawn to it and defend its tenets, in that way it is much like racism.
92 admin 06.02.09 at 11:11 pm: pumabear, agreed about the evangelicals — but not so sure about the social progress implication.

In 1974, 11% of white people in the US were poor.
In 2007, 14% of white people were poor.

In 1974, 39.8% of black people were poor.
In 2007, 34% of black people were poor.

there are 3% more poor white people today than there were in the wake of LBJ, the Great Society, MLK and the War on Poverty.

there are 4-5% fewer poor black people.

seems to me that the Left hasnt done one goddamned thing for the poor in 35 years of pretending to try.

no, the right hasnt made helping the poor a priority, I agree with that. But at least they havent been freaking LYING to us and enriching themselves at our expense.

source available here:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/histpov/perindex.html
93 admin 06.02.09 at 11:12 pm: what’s an “estrogen-driven benefit”?
94 Juliette 06.02.09 at 11:13 pm: Pumabear #71

Excuse me Pumabear, but didn’t America support poverty and military facism all over South America with more than words and beliefs but with miltary forse mostly during the Regan Years Now the alternative in South America-communism, is not much better either.
95 PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 11:13 pm: The tenets of the “right” are almost always summed up as orthodoxy, monarchy, nationalism, imperialism, women’s role and men’s role. Some of that has to be updated for the late 20th century without the monarchy.
96 catsden 06.02.09 at 11:13 pm: I have traded several comments on my blog today from someone who disagreed with my assessment of the Prop Hate rallies this past weekend. Her god is convinced that marriage is only between a man and woman because same sex marriages would destroy society. She could never define how, though, and like so many other good Christians blamed it all on the teaching of the Christ. Those teachings are in my opinion twisted versions of what he must have said because it is impossible to believe that a bringer of love, hope and charity, forgiveness and light could be so narrow minded as to cast out people who love one another.

Religious communities take themselves too seriously.
97 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 11:14 pm: Everybody fits in at Puma because we are not a Patriarchy or a religion and I guess not many Dems left either.
We are free here to discuss our ideas and beliefs non or other wise……
98 admin 06.02.09 at 11:16 pm: the right also has basic economic beliefs, like lower taxes, less regulation and red tape, and tax breaks for businesses.
99 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 11:16 pm: Religious communities take themselves too seriously.
===================================================
That they do and also make up stuff as they go along.
100 admin 06.02.09 at 11:17 pm: “Religious communities take themselves too seriously.”

Amen Sister and pass the peace pipe!

Hallelujah!
101 catsden 06.02.09 at 11:18 pm: Remember that two of the great monarchs who led the effort to colonize the Americas were women: Isabel and Elizabeth both sought to enrich their coffers and their empires by supporting exploration and exploitation.
102 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 11:18 pm: admin 06.02.09 at 11:16 pm

the right also has basic economic beliefs, like lower taxes, less regulation and red tape, and tax breaks for businesses.

AND to much religion which they play to…deeply!
103 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 11:20 pm: Well I could be a rightwing Democrat…new party…. RWD!
104 PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 11:23 pm: Juliette,
I’m not disagreeing about American imperialism. Many of the “leftist” (don’t know what that means any more)governments, freely elected were overthrown and replaced by military dictatorships because the nation dared to claim the patrimony of its own resources.

I can’t think of a single Latin American or Carribbean government not overthrown by the U.S. at least once, some subjected to all kinds of horrors and outright colonization, taking people off the land and putting them to work in factories.

The Catholic church hierarchy has almost always supported tyranny.
105 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 11:23 pm: HP
You rang?
oh..wait… RWP…
nevermind.
106 admin 06.02.09 at 11:25 pm: certainly HP — no question, the Right has a problem with the radical, rabid religio-freaks like Roeder and the well-dressed demons who egg the likes of him on.

i was just pointing out that there’s more to the Right than fundamentalist christianity.
107 catsden 06.02.09 at 11:26 pm: well there are are, DWP, I was beginning to think you’d gone off to dust off some more books.
108 PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 11:27 pm: I don’t think Hillary was treated graciously during the 1990′s. Just leave it to the lefties to one-up them in cynical vulgarity and misogyny.

The haters on the right are dedicated and well organized and have the power of the purse. It won’t be long before abortion and gay marriage are battlegrounds again. Wedge issues are profitable.
109 catsden 06.02.09 at 11:27 pm: murphy: i was just pointing out that there’s more to the Right than fundamentalist christianity.
———————

There is more to every side of an identity than the stereotype which almost always stands in the way of understanding.
110 admin 06.02.09 at 11:28 pm: I think the catholic church acted pretty bravely in Nicaragua, no?

what about Lech Walesa’s poland?

meh — who cares. the truth is the truth — structured religion is an artifact of testosterone-fueled confusion, fear, and rage. kind of like a model train set. or golf.

only with way more bombs.
111 Casper Cat 06.02.09 at 11:30 pm: DWP you have action mail….. Sorry, it is late…Hello,all of you wonderful and tenacious PUMAS… I’ve been Busy with my business… Sorry, I have not participated much these last few days… things will be better come Friday!!!!!!!!!! Just catching up on the last few days of the blog… WOW!!!! Great discussions, insight, knowledge and what an inspiration Murphy is…. Just a quick note to say a BIG THANK YOU!!!!!!!
112 Juliette 06.02.09 at 11:30 pm: What are most of you Pumas out there doing about your political affiliation? I really don’t know what I am going to do. As it stands I am still registered as a democrat. I don’t know how my becoming an independent will affect my ability to vote in PA primaries. Where do the rest of you stand, aside from what you are calling yourselves, how will you be registered?
113 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 11:30 pm: admin 06.02.09 at 11:16 pm

the right also has basic economic beliefs, like lower taxes, less regulation and red tape, and tax breaks for businesses.

—————————————-
Yup but that rabid religiosity is way out weighted by the four better government tenants and that is a deal. I get it.
114 catsden 06.02.09 at 11:31 pm: how did that old cheer go?

lean to the left, lean to the right
stand up, sit down – fight fight fight!

—–
the cry of the human species ???? forever.
115 admin 06.02.09 at 11:31 pm: for sure the vast rightwing conspiracy was/is real. but I’m looking for specific cases of violent misogyny like the ones cited in the post.

Limbaugh called Chelsea Clinton a dog when she was only 13 years old, which is unbelievably cruel, but that’s the only example of actual misogyny or vile sexism I can think of.

there was David Brock, who smeared Anita Hill as “a little slutty and a little nutty.” but then he turned out to be a closet

LIBERAL DEMOCRAT.
116 catsden 06.02.09 at 11:34 pm: Juliette: In CA where I am registered as an Independent, a voter may chose to temporarily vote as a party member for the purposes of a primary or special election only.
117 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 11:35 pm: only with way more bombs.

yup way to many bombs, and they all have them, fighting now about who gets to get some bombs..I guess That One is gonna hep em!
118 catsden 06.02.09 at 11:36 pm: or is that only possible in Los Angeles county and not in the rest of CA?

fellow Californians???
119 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 11:36 pm: catsden 06.02.09 at 11:26 pm
well there are are, DWP, I was beginning to think you’d gone off to dust off some more books.
————–
Was next door with 11 great friends of David’s… emptying the last his stuff. Took a bunch of pictures, and left the guys to their drinks and witty selves. Great group of friends who all adored David.

bbl
120 PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 11:38 pm: Murphy #92

In 1974, 11% of white people in the US were poor.
In 2007, 14% of white people were poor.

In 1974, 39.8% of black people were poor.
In 2007, 34% of black people were poor.

there are 3% more poor white people today than there were in the wake of LBJ, the Great Society, MLK and the War on Poverty.

there are 4-5% fewer poor black people.

seems to me that the Left hasnt done one goddamned thing for the poor in 35 years of pretending to try.

no, the right hasnt made helping the poor a priority, I agree with that. But at least they havent been freaking LYING to us and enriching themselves at our expense.
_____________________________

Your statistics still show three times as many poor blacks as poor whites. I think it’s possible that the abjectness of material conditions is not as low and the social conditions of segregation, jim crow, and “separate but equal” didn’t change because the right gave a damn.

The right didn’t sit around peaceably and wait for chang, they fought it with every fiber of their being.
Maybe you have to go back before 1974 for the differences to be more obvious.

What states passed the ERA, which have health care, where were there labor reforms instead of chain gangs and share-cropping, and poll taxes?
Who still opposes these changes? The right.

And the right doesn’t just have a benign interest in lower taxes, when they had their way they paid no taxes, appropriated public resources, opposed environmentalism, resisted public education.
121 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 11:38 pm: lean to the left, lean to the right
stand up, sit down – fight fight fight!
————-
I was always partial to:
We’re here
We’re queer
We’re coming for your daughters.

scared the bejeezus out of the rw fundamentalists.
122 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 11:40 pm: a voter may chose to temporarily vote as a party member for the purposes of a primary
—————–
Not true in San Diego…must be registered in that party
123 MKfromLA 06.02.09 at 11:40 pm: Seems to me more reasonable to assume that David Brock is a misogynist today because David Brock was a misogynist yesterday.
124 PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 11:42 pm: Murphy, I’d like to see the statistics of the relative wealth of white families, relative to blacks.

Conditions for AA’s changed (improved) when they were able to join unions after WWII. Now things are different. With the loss of the industrial base in this country, there will be an even greater decline in relative wealth for worker, wealth will concentrate in fewer and fewer hands.
125 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 11:43 pm: sorry…incomplete (the guys invited me to join them for a bite…meal. declined.)

Not true in San Diego… voter must be registered in the party that is holding the primary.
126 catsden 06.02.09 at 11:43 pm: PUMAbear:

And the right doesn’t just have a benign interest in lower taxes, when they had their way they paid no taxes, appropriated public resources, opposed environmentalism, resisted public education.

————-
the right never had a stranglehold on this one: tax evasion
127 Casper Cat 06.02.09 at 11:44 pm: DWP if you are still here please see post #111… Thanks
128 PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 11:44 pm: The greatest number of impoverished whites, impoverished everyone can probably be found in the Bible Belt.
129 HP Boston 06.02.09 at 11:44 pm: DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 11:38 pm

Your bad, I’m glad!

Well I’m getting my bad self to bed……………….

Nite all…Now I lay me down to sleep I pray to goddess don’t make me count sheep!
130 admin 06.02.09 at 11:46 pm: puma bear, could be — reading US Census Bureau data is addicting!

you were talking about what the left did for poor people, which is what I went looking for.

and found that they havent done much — it’s a little bit worse for white people and a very little bit better for black people.

in terms of workers rights, unions, etc I think the Left has a much better record — guess I have to go look that up!

but dont get me wrong, I am in no way advocating for a right-wing view.

All I’m saying is the Left hasnt done jack shit for women, and in the last 10-20+ years the Liberal Left has become a disgusting Swamp Misogyny.
131 DancesWithPumas 06.02.09 at 11:47 pm: Caspie (heh)
Got it. Thanks. Will get back to you soon.
132 admin 06.02.09 at 11:48 pm: mkfromla #123, amen sister.

and Cinie #57, amen sister. Testify!
133 Casper Cat 06.02.09 at 11:52 pm: DWP…Phew!!!!!! Thank you for your response… I just think it is funny between you and PB.. my name has changed from Casper to ‘Caspar, and Caspie’… Both of you are the Best…. thank you again….
134 PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 11:56 pm: Murphy,

If AA’s are better off than they used to be I don’t three times the level of poverty means it’s better for blacks. I think it means blacks had a heck of a lot farther to go than whites.

And I’m not just talking money but in voting, good jobs, political influence. As as Jim Crow was enforced, no AA had it better than the lowest other AA that couldn’t vote or go through the front door.

Some things can’t be measured by the census.
135 PUMAbear 06.02.09 at 11:59 pm: I agree. The swamp misogyny of the Left is appling and disgusting. It shows that women have to take back their place in the movement instead of selling out.

What I still don’t know is what the “right” affirmatively stands for. Until I do I’ll call the corrupt left my home.
136 admin 06.03.09 at 12:04 am: I think you’re missing my point PumaBear. I’m saying that blacks are NOT better off than they were. a couple percentage points does not a big difference make.

In 35 years, the Left has accomplished pretty much NOTHING for poor people in this country, black or white.

And of course the Right has accomplished nothing either, but der of course they havent — they never claimed to care about poverty.

my point in the original post is that the Liberal Left being the party of feminism is absolute HOGWASH.

i’ll expand that to say that the Liberal Left being the party of or for the poor is also absolute HOGWASH.

(by which I am NOT implying that the Conservative Right IS the party for women or the poor — far from it.)
137 PUMAbear 06.03.09 at 12:05 am: I believe women’s lives are better. Hell, I can even remember when women couldn’t even wear pants! LOL.
What has the “right” done for women, even white women, except allow them to enjoy the fruits and privileges of belonging to white men?

The only event I can think of is the KKK’s efforts to get the vote for women because they thought it would dilute the votes of immigrants.
138 PUMAbear 06.03.09 at 12:07 am: I disagree Murphy.

A lot has improved over the last fifty years, not all of it to be measured in material wealth.

Compare life in 1960 to today. No comparison. I think the left had much to do with it. Can’t say the right did anything but stand in the way.
139 MKfromLA 06.03.09 at 12:08 am: Misogyny (like the other Hatreds) is taught from the cradle to the grave.

I do not assume that the right is my friend because the left has sold me out.
140 simofish 06.03.09 at 12:10 am: Just finished reading the comments —- oh, I so want to come play but the Mrs sent me to my office to shut down the MAC … PUMA’s carry on w/o me and I will catch you tomorrow !!
141 DancesWithPumas 06.03.09 at 12:12 am: Of my two “handicaps” being female put more obstacles in my path than being black. Shirley Chisolm
142 MKfromLA 06.03.09 at 12:12 am: time for fresh air & dog walking

ciao
143 Deb55 06.03.09 at 12:15 am: Ladies..check out our future!

This is unbelievable…how women are treated in Saudi…our future in black & white..with color!!!

inhttp://observers.france24.com/en/content/20090601-spot-difference-saudi-style-album-magazine-covers-censorship-marker-pen
144 MKfromLA 06.03.09 at 12:15 am: Abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born.
- Ronald Reagan
145 Deb55 06.03.09 at 12:19 am: correction on 143…

Don’t miss this!!

http://observers.france24.com/en/content/20090601-spot-difference-saudi-style-album-magazine-covers-censorship-marker-pen
146 admin 06.03.09 at 12:21 am: you can’t disagree with me about that PumaBear because I agree with you.

I didnt say that nothing has changed for the better in the past 50 years. A LOT has changed for the better. Most of the good changes have been made by WOMEN, for women.

what I said is that the Liberal Left has accomplished jack-shit in terms of poverty in the last 35 years and that the Liberal Left is misogynistic and no welcoming home for women.
147 catsden 06.03.09 at 12:26 am: I know with certainty that my daughter has started out in a far better place than I did and I assume that is true for you murphy. I also know with certainty that many of her friends are starting from the same spot their own mothers did. When she and I talk I realize that no matter many of were able to move forward, we left a lot of women behind – not purposely, of course, but because as PUMAbear has pointed out the changes were not “systemic” but sporadic. There is so much to be done. My grandmother came to this country in their teens, one was “promised” in marriage and the other was a mother by the time she was 15. Their lives are like phantasms in my memories; lives I can’t even begin to visualize myself in, so I know that there has been progress – - but at such a slow and pitiful rate. We do what we can, but we also must acknowledge how much there is yet to do.
148 catsden 06.03.09 at 12:31 am: I posted while you were posting murphy so please understand that I was making a general comment not directed at what you were saying. I agree with you entirely and I agree with PUMAbear entirely. You are both talking about different facets of the same problem. I agree with Dances to, no matter what she has to say.
149 Juliette 06.03.09 at 12:32 am: Pumabear 104

The Catholic Church does not support the tyranny of Islam, our appointed president does.
150 DancesWithPumas 06.03.09 at 12:42 am: Am I the only person here that finds this odd?
———-
probably
151 Juliette 06.03.09 at 12:45 am: Catsden,
Thanks for the 411 on voter registration in CA. I guess I will have to find out what the laws are in PA concerning independents voting in the primary. Oh, remeber when primary elections mattered? As for becoming a republican, they are looking classier than the dems right now, and I respect that they nominated the best among their candidates in the primary. It seems that they realized that Bush-conservativism was a failure.
Unfortunately the country had to go with the political bi-polar disease and (elect?) the radical left candidate. I have this nagging feeling that if the pedulum keeps swaying the way it did in this election, our next president will be Dick Cheney.
152 admin 06.03.09 at 12:48 am: Mick, the 2 FEC filings you are asking about are being submitted late. If you’d like to drive up here and help me fill them out that would be great.

thanks!
153 antifish 06.03.09 at 1:01 am: Goodnight Murphy. Sorry for the outburst. Feel free to delete.

Goodnight Pumas.
154 Puma-SF 06.03.09 at 1:03 am: Hey, Murph.
155 Puma-SF 06.03.09 at 1:14 am: Night, Murph.
156 PUMAbear 06.03.09 at 1:26 am: Good night Murphy,
We can discuss later.
157 PUMAbear 06.03.09 at 1:28 am: Juliette,

Your raising a different argument. I said the catholic church hierarchy often supports tyranny. Certainly the way women and children are treated and abused within the church is a kind of tyranny.
158 BillieJo 06.03.09 at 1:49 am: Juliette 06.02.09 at 11:30 pm

What are most of you Pumas out there doing about your political affiliation? I really don’t know what I am going to do. As it stands I am still registered as a democrat. I don’t know how my becoming an independent will affect my ability to vote in PA primaries. Where do the rest of you stand, aside from what you are calling yourselves, how will you be registered?
—–
I am going to stay a registered Dem, never would register as a Repub. If and when there is ever a great Independent running I would only vote for them if they have enough votes to possibly win, otherwise it’s throwing your vote away.
159 BillieJo 06.03.09 at 1:50 am: Night PUMAs.
160 Juliette 06.03.09 at 2:14 am: PumaBear

I still don’t see how women are abused in the church. If a women is smart enough to think for herself and understand that the Pope is not God nor Jesus, he is just a man, she will make her own decisions on things like birth control and choice. There are millions of pro-choice Catholics like myself.
As for the pedophiles in the church, it is a sad fact of life that pedophiles exist and the way that the Catholic church dealt with those accused was a disgrace. But they paid dearly, when most of the other pediphiles attached to some orginization with less money got away with no punishment. Litigation goes where the money is. The parents of these children who were molested by priests should have gone immediately to the police. They failed their children miserably.
Think for a minute, if someone came to you and told you that their child said that your brother molested them. Would you give your brother the benefit of the doubt or would you call the police. I myself would be doubtful because the parent didn’t go straight to the police. That doesn’t excuse the way the church handled the situation, but there is also blame that should go to the parents who put their blind faith in people who are just men.
Catholicism is not a political system. Unless you want to dwell in the past -700 years ago when the church was used and abused by Emperial powers, Catholics are free to think for themselves. If they don’t they only have themselves to blame.
Sorry to go on and on but I think it is self defeating for Pumas to alienate Catholics. Catholics were many of Hillary’s strongest supporters. They vote mostly democrat which shows there varying views on choice and other issues. Varying views which they are free to have.
161 edie20091 06.03.09 at 2:31 am: “Catholicism is not a political system.”

In which solar system?
162 Cinie 06.03.09 at 2:47 am: Juliette, you said, “I still don’t see how women are abused in the church. If a women is smart enough to think for herself and understand that the Pope is not God nor Jesus, he is just a man, she will make her own decisions on things like birth control and choice. There are millions of pro-choice Catholics like myself.”

My question: can she be Pope? A priest?
163 Juliette 06.03.09 at 3:08 am: I that in time there will be Catholic Priest. Maybe even a Pope.
In my life time no one ever belived there would be a Pope who wasn’t Italian.
Patriarchy exist in every part of the world in atheist countries als well as Christian Jewish and Muslim countries. This is only because we have a physical disadvantage as women. If we were physically stronger than men we would probably see matriarchy through out the world. I think it is important for women to make the best of our intellect and over come what we have as a disadvantage. I can see no other real reason for patriarchy or the victimization, violence, and oppression that women face other than the fact that women have a physical disadvantage.
I can’t blame religion for that especially seeing how women are treated in communist China.
164 Juliette 06.03.09 at 3:10 am: edie20091 #161
In the Milkyway.
165 Juliette 06.03.09 at 3:12 am: 165 correction
I’m getting really tired.
I meant (women) priest of course.
166 Stray Yellar Dawg 06.03.09 at 5:43 am: Just want to say that I gave you a shout out on “Sarah Palin Radio” on Monday.

Please listen in and let me know what you think!

http://syd4.blogspot.com/2009/06/listen-to-my-interview-about-hillary.html
167 stoney42 06.03.09 at 6:42 am: Happy Anniversary Pumas!
168 Notyoursweetie 06.03.09 at 7:01 am: And you didn’t even get to the postpartisan “top 10″ friendly wars – where left and right bonds over demeaning of women
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2009/06/03/women-as-cannon-fodder-in-political-wars/
169 TexasTigress 06.03.09 at 7:12 am: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/345a9a70-4f69-11de-a692-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1

“Chinese company to buy Hummer ”

DO NOT BE FOOLED !
There are no flipping “Chinese Companies”
Only the Chinese Government .
The Last time our Government sold our workers out to the Chinese , they made an agreement with the Chinese government that they could buy a parts supplier in Indiana (we fought this ferrociously and lost) they made the Chinese Government “promise ‘ that the jobs would remain in the US .
How’d that whole promise thing work out ?
Within 5 years the company was closed and moved to China !
At the time , it was a huge fight because Congress ( and Bubba) had to approve the Communist Government owning a company on American soil . The autoworkers were very opposed . Tianamen Square and Tibet (among other violations of human rights by the Chinese government ) were major factors in not wanting to allow them to gain from a very profitable division .
Now that the US government owns a large part of GM , it will not be necessary to to try to get the ‘people’ behind this sale .
The Workers rights , womens rights, and HUIMAN rights violations of the Chinese Government are legendary and our government keeps f’ing rewarding them .
The pay off before was theat GM would get to open a plant in China to also take advantage of poor wages , child labor , no environmental standard , and forced labor .
I wonder what the pay off is for selling/ giving them our (local) Hummer Plant …
FREE the Chinese Workers ,Free the Chinese Women and children , FREE TIBET !
bastards .
Oh , and good morning .
170 Cinie 06.03.09 at 7:24 am: Juliette John Paul was Pope for almost 30 years, so it’s not like a non-Italian Pope is a recent breakthrough. And, Peter wasn’t Italian, either. There were plenty other non-Italian Popes in the line, but no women. How can you ever have a female Pope when the Church won’t ordain women as priests? How can you NOT see that as oppressive? I’m sorry, but saying there are other ways to dominate women, like communism, doesn’t make the religious way better.
171 Dragonfly 06.03.09 at 7:38 am: Ditto, Cinie at 170. Christianity began with sexism – the apostles did not want to admit Mary Magdalene was the chief apostle, the one who did not abandon him, along with Jesus’ mother, the one who first spoke to him after the resurrection. The New Testament is full of sexism and the Old Testament is full of justifications for genocide of people who worshiped the Goddess (Ashtoreth).

Patriarchy and misogyny are built into the foundations of our society. It does not matter if we are talking religion or politics.

Happy Anniversary PUMAs! ROAR on.
172 HP Boston 06.03.09 at 8:41 am: Happy Anniversary PUMAs!
Good Morning and every proud Puma in Puma land shall give thanks for the gift of Darragh Murphy who brought us here
to fight for our right to live in a better world for women and all adrift Democrats and
members
of
the
The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster!!!!!
h/t TT
http://www.venganza.org/about/
173 mick 06.03.09 at 8:45 am: Murphy 06.03.09 at 12:48 am #152

Thanks Murphy for your attention to my question. Gosh, I hope those late fees aren’t too much. As the treasurer of this organization, I would hope that you are capable of filling out the electronic filings without my help. Although, it would be a good excuse for me to come up to Boston to pal around with my favorite right-wing extremist friend, Nina. I know, I know, it’s hard to believe, but there really is 1 left there. Lol.

Again, thanks and I’ll be checking the FEC site in the near future for those late reports. As Anderson Cooper would say, “just Keeping Them Honest”.
___________________________________

Mick, the 2 FEC filings you are asking about are being submitted late. If you’d like to drive up here and help me fill them out that would be great.

thanks!
174 murphy 06.03.09 at 8:52 am: mick!
175 Notyoursweetie 06.03.09 at 9:01 am: Meanwhile, B0′s marriage became tabloid fodder
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2009/06/03/b0-marriage-tabloids-cover-already/
176 mick 06.03.09 at 9:05 am: Hmm, I know it’s grown but isn’t the Muslim population in the U.S. still only about 1%? I really want some of what Dear Leader is smokin’…

“In an interview with Laura Haim on Canal Plus, a French television station, Mr. Obama noted that the United States also could be considered as “one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.””

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/02/obama-signals-themes-of-mideast-speech/
177 scarlet 06.03.09 at 9:08 am: BUSH TOLD HOUSTON JOURNALIST IN 1999 IF ELECTED, “I’M GOING TO INVADE IRAQ”

by Sherwood Ross

Two years before the 9/11 attacks on America, George W. Bush told a Houston journalist if elected president, “I’m going to invade Iraq.”

Bush made the comments about starting an aggressive war to veteran Houston Chronicle reporter Mickey Herskowitz, then working with Bush on his book “A Charge To Keep,” later brought out by publisher William Morrow.

http://www.uslaboragainstwar.org/article.php?id=19340
178 Dragonfly 06.03.09 at 9:10 am: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090602/ap_on_go_su_co/us_supreme_court_sotomayor

This is a short article on how it is going for Sotomayor. She should be confirmed this summer!! No need for a bunch of hearings in September to drag this crap out.
179 mick 06.03.09 at 9:19 am: Murphy 06.03.09 at 8:52 am #174

Oh good morning Murphy, didn’t see you there.
Btw, one last question and then I’m off to work.
Why are these filings so late?
180 HP Boston 06.03.09 at 9:26 am: Could fighting help your relationship?
Are Fights Ever Good for a Relationship?
Dating blogger Rich Santos wonders if fighting can ever be a sign of a healthy relationship. His own experiences arguing with ex girlfriends don’t support the idea, but are there other couples who disagree more constructively?

http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/articlemcmatch.aspx?cp-documentid=19421056&Gt1=32023
181 persephone 06.03.09 at 9:34 am: British hostage Edwin Dyer ‘killed by al-Qaida’

Gordon Brown condemns ‘barbaric’ killing of Briton, who was reportedly beheaded in north Africa

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jun/03/edwin-dyer-hostage-killed-al-qaida

Please note
The Catholic church may have it’s faults but does not condone beheadings..
182 Dragonfly 06.03.09 at 9:37 am: HP Boston at 172, the Flying Spaghetti Monster site is hilarious. I love the letter of May 2005 that began the saga. Down here in the pandhandle of Florida, there are signs at businesses proclaiming that we should “pray for the ACLU” but “is that legal?” This is an area with many Christian churches, so the whole establishment thing seems not so important to the vocal majority of my area.
183 persephone 06.03.09 at 9:38 am: excerpted from Guardian article:

The group, al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), said in a statement quoted by Reuters that it killed Dyer on Saturday when its second deadline expired for the British government to release Abu Qatada, the Jordanian known as Osama bin Laden’s right-hand man in Europe.

“The British captive was killed so that he, and with him the British state, may taste a tiny portion of what innocent Muslims taste every day at the hands of the crusader and Jewish coalition to the east and to the west,” the statement said.

Does Obama know what he is dealing with?
184 Dragonfly 06.03.09 at 9:41 am: http://www.srpressgazette.com/news/prayer-7263–.html

here’s an article in our local paper on the conflict between the ACLU and the schools. I attended my niece’s graduation in the neighboring county, and the “inspirational words” were quotes from secular writers. The quotes were very good and appropriate. I am sure some were cursing the ACLU for keeping prayer out of the graduation. Ahhhh, I think the blame should be placed at the feet of the Founders. Good job, guys.
185 HP Boston 06.03.09 at 9:43 am: Persephone I hope the above article helps with that little tiff with lover boy………maybe next time he will let you fly the plane.
Oh and Friday is a go with Murphy make sure you bring your Cert as senior accountant. Chocolate cupcake cover the work fee? You said you will work for cupcakes………
186 persephone 06.03.09 at 9:47 am: hehe HP I was going to read your article but we never fight-we’re too old and don’t have the energy for all that “make-up sex”

As far as the plane goes-he is the Pilot In Command, unchallenged by me!
Cool under pressure at 7K feet is not one of my strong points
187 scarlet 06.03.09 at 9:54 am: BIN LADEN WARNS AMERICANS

Shortly after Obama landed in the Saudi capital, the television network Al-Jazeera aired a new audiotape, reportedly from al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, saying Obama was planting seeds for “revenge and hatred” towards the United States in the Muslim world, wire services reported. The taped message said Obama was following former President George W. Bush’s policy of “antagonizing Muslims,” and warned told Americans to be prepared for the “consequences” of the White House’s policies.

As with past tapes, the U.S. government will study to recording to determine whether it is in fact Bin Laden’s voice. The al-Qaeda leader has not been seen for years, and is believed to be in hiding along the mountainous border region between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

The tape follows a recent message from bin Laden’s deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, urging Egyptians to shun Obama during his visit, saying his Middle East trip was at the invitation of the “torturers of Egypt” and the “slaves of America.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/03/AR2009060300943.html?hpid=topnews
188 HP Boston 06.03.09 at 9:57 am: persephone 06.03.09 at 9:47 am

Okay time to make everyone cry tell where you flew off to have lunch!
189 persephone 06.03.09 at 10:00 am: HP it’s not as romantic as it sounds..

there were orange (meaning *High*) Terror Alert signs all over the airport..
190 MKfromLA 06.03.09 at 10:00 am: New Player in Missouri Politics – HARRIET’S LIST

Yesterday a new organization dedicated to electing progressive Democratic women to the state legislature and state-wide office was born. Harriett’s List, founded after the former Missouri Lt. Governor Harriett Woods, was formally launched Tuesday at a ceremony at University City, Missouri.

from http://www.electwomen.com/ via http://hinessight.com/
191 HP Boston 06.03.09 at 10:01 am: scarlet 06.03.09 at 9:54 am

BIN LADEN WARNS AMERICANS

LOL so much for Obie saying we are not at war with Islam!
I hope he stays there!
192 HP Boston 06.03.09 at 10:05 am: persephone 06.03.09 at 10:00 am

HP it’s not as romantic as it sounds..

there were orange (meaning *High*) Terror Alert signs all over the airport..

==========================================
Well that to will make us cry(figure of speech) really bad to herar that on Nantucket!! No scfp reports of course!
And you have mail….
193 scarlet 06.03.09 at 10:08 am: Group claims thousands of ‘voters’ are deceased

Group sues over voter registration records
A Minnesota group claims they’ve uncovered thousands of votes that were registered in deceased people’s names and say the Secretary of State left them on the voting rolls.

Julie Webster died in August 2006, but she voted two years later on Nov. 4, 2008. Her widow Henry Webster did not know until 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS told him that Secretary of State Mark Ritchie lists his wife as having voted last fall.

http://kstp.com/news/stories/S959715.shtml?cat=1
194 oneilma 06.03.09 at 10:08 am: Right on, Murphy. My great awakening came in March 2008 when I decided there was no way I could vote vote for Barry Soetero. I thought about history. The first women ambassadors were Republicans. My local Republican chapter was run by women, all of whom had a lot in common with me. We all worked, had kids, wanted better lives for our kids, weren’t interested in power. They were respectful. What more could you ask for? Why won’t the liberals leave Palin alone? Because independent-minded women like Palin are too dangerous. What would be even more dangerous is if we all joined forces!
195 HP Boston 06.03.09 at 10:09 am: MKfromLA 06.03.09 at 10:00 am

New Player in Missouri Politics – HARRIET’S LIST

Yesterday a new organization dedicated to electing progressive Democratic women to the state legislature and state-wide office was born. Harriett’s List, founded after the former Missouri Lt. Governor Harriett Woods, was formally launched Tuesday at a ceremony at University City, Missouri.

————-
Awesome news…
196 scarlet 06.03.09 at 10:09 am: Obama Justice Department Decision Will Allow Non-Citizens to Register to Vote in Georgia

http://www.sos.ga.gov/pressrel/2009_releases/June/20090601Obama%20Justice%20Department%20Decision%20Will%20Allow%20Non-Citizens%20to%20Register%20to%20Vote%20in%20Georgia.htm

Last year, Georgia Secretary of State Karen Handel put together a process to use state drivers’s license databases and match them to determine if any illegal aliens participated in the voting process.

Now, Obama’s Dept. of Justice has decided that this program is discriminatory and Karen is peeved.
197 HP Boston 06.03.09 at 10:10 am: scarlet 06.03.09 at 10:09 am

Obama Justice Department Decision Will Allow Non-Citizens to Register to Vote in Georgia

========================@%$^&&*_)((*^%$$#
198 persephone 06.03.09 at 10:12 am: scarlet
glad to see O’s Justice department is doing SOMETHING-they certainly ARE NOT prosecuting the Black Panthers charged with voter intimidation in PA
last year.
199 scarlet 06.03.09 at 10:16 am: GM latest in string of US company takeovers

US has nationalized companies before, mostly temporarily; Amtrak a surviving example

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GM-latest-in-string-of-US-apf-15408325.html?.v=1
200 persephone 06.03.09 at 10:19 am: re 196

The Supreme Court (including Sotomayor) will at some point hear cases pertaining to the legality of imposing voter identification checks by States.

Anyone want to bet Sotomayor will be confirmed and sitting on the SC by then?

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/01/us-voting-checks-060109/
201 admin 06.03.09 at 10:25 am: Happy Birthday to Us! posted,

take it upstairs!
202 admin 06.03.09 at 10:26 am: oh and hi dragonfly!!

remember a year ago?? feels like just yesterday AND it feels like a million years ago. . .

HP and persephone — can’t wait!
203 HP Boston 06.03.09 at 10:29 am: oneilma 06.03.09 at 10:08 am

Yes it is sad that the right is just as vicious as the left in sexism and misogyny when it comes to Sarah Palin….I will remain an independent now. I will never be any party’s patsy again! All women must united against this. Every women should change to independent and abandon the sexist politics of the Republicans and the the Democrats. IMO
204 Juliette 06.03.09 at 8:46 pm: Cinie #162

My question: Can a woman be an American president? Patriarchy is everywhere including, most unfortunately the Catholic Church. America has a long way to go, the Democrats have a long way to go and yes the Catholic Church has a long way to go, that doesn’t make me any less a Catholic than an American.

And please note I said In My Life Time-no one thought there would be a non Italian Pope (before John Paul II). Of course I know there were non Italian Popes in Catholic history Cinnie. Really, Italy wasn’t even a country until the 1860′s.
205 LinTex 06.03.09 at 11:45 pm: I started noticing a few years ago that my more conservative Republican
friends were more tolerant and much less hateful that those who consider
themselves to be liberal democrats. I really wasn’t surprised by what
Dick Cheney said as I had suspected all along that would be his position.
Stange how perceptions are often wrong!
206 HappyGirl 06.04.09 at 12:56 am: Is my choice to spend my life as valid and valuable as yours?

I’m not asserting that my choice on how to spend my life is more value, or better, or more correct, or in any way superior to your choices. Yet, this article and many posts in the comments seems to imply that my CHOICE to spend 25 years of my life as a full time wife and mother in some way make me less than a woman who made a different choice.

No one forced me to make this choice. My mother (a feminist) didn’t talk to me for a year after my first child was born, I wanted to be with my little girl full time…I never went back to work. My “wasted” degree still comes up every Thanksgiving, Christmas, Family Wedding………..

I feel so lucky and so blessed that I have a husband who felt the same and has worked hard to make sure that I could be a full time mom. We have a relationship based on serving, loving and respecting each other.

When my husband’s work gave us the opportunity to travel abroad, we decided to home school and see the world as a family…again, lucky and blessed. Our youngest child is 16. She will earn her HS Diploma by Correspondence this fall, we are returning to college together.

I have never felt oppressed by my husband, we’re a team. We chose each other, we chose to be a team. We’ve lived our life with “traditional” roles….BUT SO WHAT! Is that somehow a BAD choice?

I’ve had a wonderful life….I hope your choices make you as happy as mine have me.

Color me a Christian Libertarian.