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	<title>Comments on: A Message from Harriet Christian</title>
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	<link>http://pumapac.org/2008/12/21/a-message-from-harriet-christian/</link>
	<description>People United Means Action</description>
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		<title>By: FreeMeNow</title>
		<link>http://pumapac.org/2008/12/21/a-message-from-harriet-christian/comment-page-3/#comment-264015</link>
		<dc:creator>FreeMeNow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 03:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumapac.org/?p=3527#comment-264015</guid>
		<description>All I can say is this agenda is not new. The behavior does not fit the Mission statement which claims to speak for millions of women who can not speak for themselves. That is false and hurts us more than helps us. 
Please keep in mind this rift started because they TNA chose to do a 180 on Jon Favreau. First they spoke for us when they called for his job then the next day did a 180 and turned into enablers which is how women end up abused - then when we spoke up for ourselves they manhandled us rather then listen to us.

Read the mission stement and know this was and continues to be mishandled and now in spite refuses to cover the pre meditated attempted murder of one of their own members daughters over the dispute. How does that square with you? New Agenda- I&#039;ll say - the only thing new is that it is worsr than the old- it does not even pretend to be for the everyday woman.

BettyJean Kling 
Free-Us-Now.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I can say is this agenda is not new. The behavior does not fit the Mission statement which claims to speak for millions of women who can not speak for themselves. That is false and hurts us more than helps us.<br />
Please keep in mind this rift started because they TNA chose to do a 180 on Jon Favreau. First they spoke for us when they called for his job then the next day did a 180 and turned into enablers which is how women end up abused &#8211; then when we spoke up for ourselves they manhandled us rather then listen to us.</p>
<p>Read the mission stement and know this was and continues to be mishandled and now in spite refuses to cover the pre meditated attempted murder of one of their own members daughters over the dispute. How does that square with you? New Agenda- I&#8217;ll say &#8211; the only thing new is that it is worsr than the old- it does not even pretend to be for the everyday woman.</p>
<p>BettyJean Kling<br />
Free-Us-Now.com</p>
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		<title>By: Nina M.</title>
		<link>http://pumapac.org/2008/12/21/a-message-from-harriet-christian/comment-page-3/#comment-263148</link>
		<dc:creator>Nina M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 20:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumapac.org/?p=3527#comment-263148</guid>
		<description>Dear everyone,

I heard about this post and sought it out to read it for myself.  I am writing to say that I am very sad, very sad and hurt, to read it and many of the subsequent comments.  For your information, no one has asked me to read this, much less to comment on it.

Like all of you, I was outraged by the &#039;war on Hillary.&#039;  I was doubly outraged when I saw what was being done to Sarah Palin.  I did everything within my power (which is pretty limited, but nevertheless) to counter the lies about both women, both on a one-to-one basis with family and friends and through the internet.  

I was thrilled to join The New Agenda, and I am thrilled to be a member now.  I understand there have been some strong differences of opinion among feminists as this nascent organization takes shape, and I respect that.

What really hurts is to see feminists attack other feminists as if they are the enemy.  You may not like the way The New Agenda is developing, but we are part of the same family.  We are not the ones trying to hurt women, to hold them back, to belittle them in public, and to ensure their failure.  We are not the real enemy.

The real enemies are the news executives and anchors who continue to spew their sexism without any negative repercussions.  The real enemies are calling Favreau&#039;s despicable photos &quot;silly&quot; and Larry Summers&#039; theories &quot;no big deal.&quot;  The real enemies are promoting misogynistic music and television and movies and video games, redefining both &quot;femaleness&quot; and &quot;maleness&quot; in ever more restrictive and degrading ways.   And as you know, I could go on and on.

I was raised by a feminist mother, a single woman, blue collar, sometimes on welfare but most of the time working two and even three jobs at a time.  I have spent my entire career working and volunteering in the feminist movement.   What&#039;s really wounded me here is the rhetoric about blue collar women not being welcome in The New Agenda.  Hello!  Here I am!  I exist!  And I am taken every bit as seriously as any other woman.

The other thing that wounds me is this - this election cycle, I had the horrible experience of seeing feminist leaders I know personally repeated attack Hillary Clinton on the pages of Slate and Salon, while admitting privately that they &quot;couldn&#039;t stand her&quot; because of some slight they perceived a decade before, some perceived insult when so-and-so wasn&#039;t invited to the White House or so-and-so wasn&#039;t thanked at the signing ceremony.  These leaders went to work for Edwards and Obama because their own feelings were hurt, and to get back at Hillary they were willing to trash a movement that meant the world to so many other women.  

Please don&#039;t go down that path.  There are a lot of people who seem willing to believe the worst possible interpretation of a sister&#039;s actions, and who seem eager to indulge in &quot;mean girls&quot; type behavior rather than take the high road.  I know everyone feels passionately about these issues.  But instead of tearing each other down, instead of watching and waiting for someone to slip up and pouncing on them at the earliest opportunity, we should have our eye on the real problems.  Because as far as I know, no one has been held accountable for the despicable behavior we saw over the past year.  Not one person.  And the pattern continues.

Its not like misogyny is taking a break for the holidays.  Sometimes I think its getting worse and worse every single day. 

I offer this comment in a spirit of respect for the sacrifices so many of you have made to defend women - to defend the truth - when it seemed like the whole country had gone nuts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear everyone,</p>
<p>I heard about this post and sought it out to read it for myself.  I am writing to say that I am very sad, very sad and hurt, to read it and many of the subsequent comments.  For your information, no one has asked me to read this, much less to comment on it.</p>
<p>Like all of you, I was outraged by the &#8216;war on Hillary.&#8217;  I was doubly outraged when I saw what was being done to Sarah Palin.  I did everything within my power (which is pretty limited, but nevertheless) to counter the lies about both women, both on a one-to-one basis with family and friends and through the internet.  </p>
<p>I was thrilled to join The New Agenda, and I am thrilled to be a member now.  I understand there have been some strong differences of opinion among feminists as this nascent organization takes shape, and I respect that.</p>
<p>What really hurts is to see feminists attack other feminists as if they are the enemy.  You may not like the way The New Agenda is developing, but we are part of the same family.  We are not the ones trying to hurt women, to hold them back, to belittle them in public, and to ensure their failure.  We are not the real enemy.</p>
<p>The real enemies are the news executives and anchors who continue to spew their sexism without any negative repercussions.  The real enemies are calling Favreau&#8217;s despicable photos &#8220;silly&#8221; and Larry Summers&#8217; theories &#8220;no big deal.&#8221;  The real enemies are promoting misogynistic music and television and movies and video games, redefining both &#8220;femaleness&#8221; and &#8220;maleness&#8221; in ever more restrictive and degrading ways.   And as you know, I could go on and on.</p>
<p>I was raised by a feminist mother, a single woman, blue collar, sometimes on welfare but most of the time working two and even three jobs at a time.  I have spent my entire career working and volunteering in the feminist movement.   What&#8217;s really wounded me here is the rhetoric about blue collar women not being welcome in The New Agenda.  Hello!  Here I am!  I exist!  And I am taken every bit as seriously as any other woman.</p>
<p>The other thing that wounds me is this &#8211; this election cycle, I had the horrible experience of seeing feminist leaders I know personally repeated attack Hillary Clinton on the pages of Slate and Salon, while admitting privately that they &#8220;couldn&#8217;t stand her&#8221; because of some slight they perceived a decade before, some perceived insult when so-and-so wasn&#8217;t invited to the White House or so-and-so wasn&#8217;t thanked at the signing ceremony.  These leaders went to work for Edwards and Obama because their own feelings were hurt, and to get back at Hillary they were willing to trash a movement that meant the world to so many other women.  </p>
<p>Please don&#8217;t go down that path.  There are a lot of people who seem willing to believe the worst possible interpretation of a sister&#8217;s actions, and who seem eager to indulge in &#8220;mean girls&#8221; type behavior rather than take the high road.  I know everyone feels passionately about these issues.  But instead of tearing each other down, instead of watching and waiting for someone to slip up and pouncing on them at the earliest opportunity, we should have our eye on the real problems.  Because as far as I know, no one has been held accountable for the despicable behavior we saw over the past year.  Not one person.  And the pattern continues.</p>
<p>Its not like misogyny is taking a break for the holidays.  Sometimes I think its getting worse and worse every single day. </p>
<p>I offer this comment in a spirit of respect for the sacrifices so many of you have made to defend women &#8211; to defend the truth &#8211; when it seemed like the whole country had gone nuts.</p>
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		<title>By: glennmcgahee</title>
		<link>http://pumapac.org/2008/12/21/a-message-from-harriet-christian/comment-page-3/#comment-263047</link>
		<dc:creator>glennmcgahee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumapac.org/?p=3527#comment-263047</guid>
		<description>PLease keep in mind there are some guys like me who are PUMA and consider myself a feminist. Maybe because I&#039;m gay or maybe because I saw my mom and sisters eaten alive by the horible Catholic Church doctrine as they  were ordered to obey the father. My father, an abusive, alcoholic who the church ordered my mother to live with and tolerate. When my sister&#039;s turn at marriage came and she told me about the counseling sessions before her marriage that involved obedience to the male, that was enough for her and me. We finally left the church. I fault most misogyny to the church. Not just the Catholics, but most denominations. As I watch the Kennedy&#039;s, Chris Mathews and media and politicos talk about the Pope as if he is God&#039;s personal penpal and  they dictate how a woman can live her life or condemn homosexuality. Unlike Obama, I choose to move in the other direction. I don&#039;t care to join with the Evangelicals to have a dialogue, I&#039;ve heard their side and know they don&#039;t care about mine. Its time to claim our country from these religious zealots. They can practice their religion but keep it away from my government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PLease keep in mind there are some guys like me who are PUMA and consider myself a feminist. Maybe because I&#8217;m gay or maybe because I saw my mom and sisters eaten alive by the horible Catholic Church doctrine as they  were ordered to obey the father. My father, an abusive, alcoholic who the church ordered my mother to live with and tolerate. When my sister&#8217;s turn at marriage came and she told me about the counseling sessions before her marriage that involved obedience to the male, that was enough for her and me. We finally left the church. I fault most misogyny to the church. Not just the Catholics, but most denominations. As I watch the Kennedy&#8217;s, Chris Mathews and media and politicos talk about the Pope as if he is God&#8217;s personal penpal and  they dictate how a woman can live her life or condemn homosexuality. Unlike Obama, I choose to move in the other direction. I don&#8217;t care to join with the Evangelicals to have a dialogue, I&#8217;ve heard their side and know they don&#8217;t care about mine. Its time to claim our country from these religious zealots. They can practice their religion but keep it away from my government.</p>
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		<title>By: Stray Yellar Dawg</title>
		<link>http://pumapac.org/2008/12/21/a-message-from-harriet-christian/comment-page-3/#comment-263002</link>
		<dc:creator>Stray Yellar Dawg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumapac.org/?p=3527#comment-263002</guid>
		<description>Wow. I am so sorry to see a group with such potential infighting. 

But, then, it&#039;s not unusual... when strong minded people get together they are bound to disagree.

I stand by Harriet... and a folk hero of HUGE import for the future of blue collar Feminism.

And I stand behind Amy....as she spearheads a new, communal, voice for Feminists in Politics.

It is possible to respect both sides. And it is critical that we not start eating each others limbs off... as the Obots are now doing over the Warren pick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. I am so sorry to see a group with such potential infighting. </p>
<p>But, then, it&#8217;s not unusual&#8230; when strong minded people get together they are bound to disagree.</p>
<p>I stand by Harriet&#8230; and a folk hero of HUGE import for the future of blue collar Feminism.</p>
<p>And I stand behind Amy&#8230;.as she spearheads a new, communal, voice for Feminists in Politics.</p>
<p>It is possible to respect both sides. And it is critical that we not start eating each others limbs off&#8230; as the Obots are now doing over the Warren pick.</p>
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		<title>By: Zee</title>
		<link>http://pumapac.org/2008/12/21/a-message-from-harriet-christian/comment-page-3/#comment-262996</link>
		<dc:creator>Zee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumapac.org/?p=3527#comment-262996</guid>
		<description>I concur with Nijma and Seattlegirl... &quot;We are better off not speaking with one voice. There needs to be a sugar coated voice (Amy’s New Agenda) and a radical voice PUMA) for women. These are inevitable growing pains of a new woman’s movement as I see it.&quot;

I am sorry for the infighting and back channel break ups, but that is not how The New Agenda conducts its business in public, and the women who go there know nothing of this back and forth behind the scenes, so you all might think twice before gleefully bashing women who go there as &quot;faux&quot; feminists.  Riverdaughter, over at the Confluence, has shown some incredibly poor judgment in allowing attacks and in censoring and banning.  I chose not to go there, but in no way would condemn the regulars there.

And mamabroad, I was glad to see you post #56.  Ditto, gay girl #66....thanks for the reminder.

You should definitely keep posting here!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I concur with Nijma and Seattlegirl&#8230; &#8220;We are better off not speaking with one voice. There needs to be a sugar coated voice (Amy’s New Agenda) and a radical voice PUMA) for women. These are inevitable growing pains of a new woman’s movement as I see it.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am sorry for the infighting and back channel break ups, but that is not how The New Agenda conducts its business in public, and the women who go there know nothing of this back and forth behind the scenes, so you all might think twice before gleefully bashing women who go there as &#8220;faux&#8221; feminists.  Riverdaughter, over at the Confluence, has shown some incredibly poor judgment in allowing attacks and in censoring and banning.  I chose not to go there, but in no way would condemn the regulars there.</p>
<p>And mamabroad, I was glad to see you post #56.  Ditto, gay girl #66&#8230;.thanks for the reminder.</p>
<p>You should definitely keep posting here!</p>
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		<title>By: Headclunker</title>
		<link>http://pumapac.org/2008/12/21/a-message-from-harriet-christian/comment-page-3/#comment-262745</link>
		<dc:creator>Headclunker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumapac.org/?p=3527#comment-262745</guid>
		<description>Apparently the New Agenda has an old agenda.  Just call me &quot;trailer trash,&quot;  better that then a fauxminist.

PUMA forever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently the New Agenda has an old agenda.  Just call me &#8220;trailer trash,&#8221;  better that then a fauxminist.</p>
<p>PUMA forever.</p>
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		<title>By: Dhyan</title>
		<link>http://pumapac.org/2008/12/21/a-message-from-harriet-christian/comment-page-3/#comment-262711</link>
		<dc:creator>Dhyan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 23:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumapac.org/?p=3527#comment-262711</guid>
		<description>Thank you for forwarding the message. People don&#039;t have to be with me, but I need to know who&#039;s against me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for forwarding the message. People don&#8217;t have to be with me, but I need to know who&#8217;s against me.</p>
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		<title>By: KarenWI</title>
		<link>http://pumapac.org/2008/12/21/a-message-from-harriet-christian/comment-page-3/#comment-262688</link>
		<dc:creator>KarenWI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumapac.org/?p=3527#comment-262688</guid>
		<description>In my personal opinion outside of rape I don&#039;t understand why we&#039;d even need abortion in most cases with all the birth control measures we have available now....  If people USED the condoms, and pills, or WHATEVERS, they wouldn&#039;t need to make that decision. My mother&#039;s mother had over 6 abortions (before they were legal).  She didn&#039;t want the abortions, but her husband didn&#039;t want the kids, just the sex.   She went to an abortion clinic to have mom aborted too... it didn&#039;t &quot;take&quot; or else I wouldn&#039;t be here today.  Back then they didn&#039;t have all the methods to NOT get pregnant that we have today.  If they had had them she I am sure she wouldn&#039;t have gotten pregnant so many times and wouldn&#039;t have had so many abortions.  ...and, I&#039;m sure, mom nor I would be here today....  LOL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my personal opinion outside of rape I don&#8217;t understand why we&#8217;d even need abortion in most cases with all the birth control measures we have available now&#8230;.  If people USED the condoms, and pills, or WHATEVERS, they wouldn&#8217;t need to make that decision. My mother&#8217;s mother had over 6 abortions (before they were legal).  She didn&#8217;t want the abortions, but her husband didn&#8217;t want the kids, just the sex.   She went to an abortion clinic to have mom aborted too&#8230; it didn&#8217;t &#8220;take&#8221; or else I wouldn&#8217;t be here today.  Back then they didn&#8217;t have all the methods to NOT get pregnant that we have today.  If they had had them she I am sure she wouldn&#8217;t have gotten pregnant so many times and wouldn&#8217;t have had so many abortions.  &#8230;and, I&#8217;m sure, mom nor I would be here today&#8230;.  LOL.</p>
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		<title>By: GoPumaGo</title>
		<link>http://pumapac.org/2008/12/21/a-message-from-harriet-christian/comment-page-3/#comment-262683</link>
		<dc:creator>GoPumaGo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumapac.org/?p=3527#comment-262683</guid>
		<description>I have gained a wonderful education from this election.  I have changed my mind on many ideas and also formed opinions on others.  I now see the political scene in a more corruption way.  I now like the view of George Washington in his farewell address on the dangers of Political Parties.  I see the dangers he mentions facing us all too strongly.

I now see the parties as all too self serving.  the politicians as totally self interested.  Everyone is ripping off the money at the federal level.  There is simply way too much money floating around Washington DC.

It might be nice to experiment with NO POLITICAL PARTIES but all candidates and elected officials are independent.  All are dedicated to voting their ethics and working as hard as possible for the betterment of our country.  

My view is that the entire US political scene is one of Pay to Play.  Our elected officials are elitists and out of touch with the common person.  The country is filling up with little family dynasties.  We are missing the leadership of those with the most talent who have worked hard and proven they are good people.  

It may be impossible to control the corruption and therefore the size of the government must be minimal.  How did this country ever exist as a beginning country with only a few people running the show.  Now we have almost the entire population working for the government.  

The larger the goverment the more money running through Washington the more corruption we will always have.  Therefore we must minimize the government.  

I ask the question.  Has any President ever left office with a smaller government then the size when he took office?

Also the gov has taken powers that were not given to them by the Constitution.  This should stop.  I have the greatest fear of the Democratic adminstration now wants a Continental Congress which will have the power to rewrite the constitution WITHOUT being ratified by the states.  This is too big a risk.  Obama wants to destroy the Constitution.  Remember the purpose of the Constitution is to LIMIT the Government against the people.  If we allow a continental congress this country will come to an end for sure. The power of the ruling class will become absolute.  And absolute power corrupts absolutely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have gained a wonderful education from this election.  I have changed my mind on many ideas and also formed opinions on others.  I now see the political scene in a more corruption way.  I now like the view of George Washington in his farewell address on the dangers of Political Parties.  I see the dangers he mentions facing us all too strongly.</p>
<p>I now see the parties as all too self serving.  the politicians as totally self interested.  Everyone is ripping off the money at the federal level.  There is simply way too much money floating around Washington DC.</p>
<p>It might be nice to experiment with NO POLITICAL PARTIES but all candidates and elected officials are independent.  All are dedicated to voting their ethics and working as hard as possible for the betterment of our country.  </p>
<p>My view is that the entire US political scene is one of Pay to Play.  Our elected officials are elitists and out of touch with the common person.  The country is filling up with little family dynasties.  We are missing the leadership of those with the most talent who have worked hard and proven they are good people.  </p>
<p>It may be impossible to control the corruption and therefore the size of the government must be minimal.  How did this country ever exist as a beginning country with only a few people running the show.  Now we have almost the entire population working for the government.  </p>
<p>The larger the goverment the more money running through Washington the more corruption we will always have.  Therefore we must minimize the government.  </p>
<p>I ask the question.  Has any President ever left office with a smaller government then the size when he took office?</p>
<p>Also the gov has taken powers that were not given to them by the Constitution.  This should stop.  I have the greatest fear of the Democratic adminstration now wants a Continental Congress which will have the power to rewrite the constitution WITHOUT being ratified by the states.  This is too big a risk.  Obama wants to destroy the Constitution.  Remember the purpose of the Constitution is to LIMIT the Government against the people.  If we allow a continental congress this country will come to an end for sure. The power of the ruling class will become absolute.  And absolute power corrupts absolutely.</p>
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		<title>By: mountainsong</title>
		<link>http://pumapac.org/2008/12/21/a-message-from-harriet-christian/comment-page-3/#comment-262682</link>
		<dc:creator>mountainsong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pumapac.org/?p=3527#comment-262682</guid>
		<description>Ya know, this election puzzles me a bit. Now that men have the &#039;power&#039;, so to speak, they are not about to relinquish it. And, if there was anything left of this country worth having, I don&#039;t believe for one second that WHITE men would have given it up. Obama just wouldn&#039;t have happened. But, alot of people united behind his message of change.
I absolutely agree with Murphy about &#039;disunity&#039; being the bane of Feminism. If I knew what to do about THAT, I&#039;d be close to walking on water..........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ya know, this election puzzles me a bit. Now that men have the &#8216;power&#8217;, so to speak, they are not about to relinquish it. And, if there was anything left of this country worth having, I don&#8217;t believe for one second that WHITE men would have given it up. Obama just wouldn&#8217;t have happened. But, alot of people united behind his message of change.<br />
I absolutely agree with Murphy about &#8216;disunity&#8217; being the bane of Feminism. If I knew what to do about THAT, I&#8217;d be close to walking on water&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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