The Personal Is NOT Political

hey first! heehee

But did you read Murphy’s post before claiming #1? I read it!!

ladyhawkke 12.05.08 at 3:05 pm

read it now, nice post MURPH! WOW!

I was too excited about being first. heehee

ladyhawke in response from downstairs, OJ took TWO lives, not just one.

Just for the record, I found MM because the MSM was so disappointing. I found Hot Air because MM was okay but not covering stories I’d heard elsewhere. I found PUMA PAC because Hot Air was slanted in what they chose to cover and what they didn’t, AND because what they covered and HOW they covered it in regards to the election got on my nerves. I don’t listen to ONE source of news. I read and listen across a pretty broad spectrum. From that I have learned to figure out what each agenda is and how and why they put up the type of news they do. I read many PUMA blogs as well as MM & Hot Air now because they present sides of the story I never knew existed, nor would have known had I not gone searching for them.

This I think is one of the problems in this country. We find our niche and let them spoonfeed us. We don’t ask questions. We don’t dig for ourselves. For now, while I am free, I will choose for myself, and for me, variety is my choice.

oops: not enough zero’s: $ 600,000,000

ZERO is correct.

TxRepGirl I know, how could I forget? I despise O.J. I still can’t believe he got off but what do you expect with a black jury.

Ah, Murphy, what a post! It fell on me like fresh water on a thirsty mouth. Why is it so hard to see? I cannot find ONLY one friend of mine, some of them women that are otherwise bright and talented, that comprehends what you just said. Your last paragraph is DEAD RIGHT.

Pumas, I’m always lurking, and rarely miss anything you guys have to say so eloquently. Thank you for being there. The fact that you are here with your thoughts and wise exchanges makes the prospect of the next years more bearable.

ladyhawkke 12.05.08 at 3:26 pm

DO SHARE…

Sorry, I think that’s how Murphy referred to them too. I just thought everyone knew… bad assumption on my part.

MM = Michelle Malkin http://www.michellemalkin.com
Hot Air = http://www.hotair.com a video/blog that Michelle Malkin started, two guys run it now, and I’m not a big fan of either but they do give more news than MSM.

Both are very right leaning, and both would be very surprised to find out how many PUMAs are in on the BC thing–they think it’s just right wing kooks (don’t get me started).

Oh, and I missed a link in that chain. I found PUMA because I was going to Hillbuzz and No Quarter…

WHERE IS OBAMA’S MOVEMENT GOING?

I got an email from his Movement. Checked to find out where all the Change House Parties were located. There are a lot of them within 150 miles of my home.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/event/search_results?event_type=231&zip_radius%5B1%5D=150&type=advanced&orderby=zip_radius&zip_radius%5B0%5D=60523&x=22&y=13

I went to his blog that addresses this house party change issue to find out what the change is that they want. I found a lot of prayers to Jesus from his supporters.

Here is the e:

Friend –

Exactly one month ago, you made history by giving all Americans a real opportunity for change.

Now it’s time to start preparing and working for change in our communities.

On December 13th and 14th, supporters are coming together in every part of the country to reflect on what we’ve accomplished and plan the future of this movement. Your ideas and feedback will be collected and used to guide this movement in the months and years ahead.

Join your friends and neighbors — sign up to host or attend a Change is Coming house meeting near you.

Since the election, the challenges we face — and our responsibility to take action — have only gotten more urgent.

You can connect with fellow supporters, make progress on the issues you care about, and help shape the future of your community and our country.

Learn what you can do now to support President-elect Obama’s agenda for change and continue to make a difference in your community.

Take the first important step by hosting or attending a Change is Coming house meeting. Sign up right now:

http://my.barackobama.com/changeiscoming

To get our country back on track, it will take all of us working together.

Barack and Joe have a clear agenda and an unprecedented opportunity for change. But they can’t do it alone.

Will you join us at a house meeting and help plan the next steps for this movement?

Thanks,

David

David Plouffe
Campaign Manager
Obama for America

Good grief who wrote that????
omg………. you don’t write for me…
What ever i am and what ever i will be, is my choice.
I’m a very happy woman that would like to see a woman as POTUS….. yes maybe that is all we had in common….
I’m fine with my life and love my whole being as a woman…. i love sex…and im not a Women who has sex with man every damn day…..( if i wanted 2 i would… ).. its my choice…
my daughters attitude defines this well…. the men don’t use me, I uses them !!! her words… I am not a victim unless I choose to be.
I guess you could sum it up like this… I’m a real Texas woman and the Texas men understand us.
Im sorry if i miss read that posting… but it just hit me the wrong way… I even tried to read it twice… made me feel small… so i stopped reading….
later all..

scarlet 12.05.08 at 3:37 pm More ‘proof’ he doesn’t know what to do, what he’s doing, or how to do it. God, America elected a frickin IDIOT!!! But, by God, he’s the ‘first black president’. whoopiefrickindoobie.

Murphy – Have you sent in your FECK Obama Complaint?

mountainsong: What are you talking about, NOW what is he doing??

Yes, and that stupid man we are calling president wants to keep his blackberry so that he can connect with “his” people.
Hello, this is the President of the United States calling to ask if you have any input for me.

Is he making a mockery of the White House by being on the cutting edge of change ?? I DON’T WANT MY PRESIDENT CALLING TOM – DICK – HARRY for suggestions. I want my president to exercise restraint and judgement of his own together with the people he supposedly hand picked for their intelligence and integrity into his cabinet.

I don’t want a president to be a laughing stock of the world.

Never mind mountainsong: You meant memo from Obama’s manager.

It’s just to raise more MONEY—-he doesn’t give a SHIT what they want.

Prowlland I thought the piece was very well written and that is Murphy’s view. However, I am not one of those women either, I am very happy with my life and self-reliant. I don’t take any sh** from any man and am very outspoken. I am not intimidated by men and am very comfortable in their company. I play a lot of tennis and have played with men all of my life. Only recently I joined a women’s team; however, I prefer mixed doubles and when I can’t find another woman, I play doubles with three other men. When I read Murphy’s post, I did not consider myself one of those women. My interpretation was that Murphy is speaking for those women who are crying out and unable to get out of their own horrible situations.

OMG the Russians have Obama as not POTUS

http://countusout.wordpress.com/2008/11/21/2-2-will-always-be-4-and-so-long-as-the-current-premises-remain-true-forever-barry-soetoro-barack-hussein-will-never-be-potus/#comment-4008

Dec 3, 2008 10:48 pm US/Central

Truth In Politics: Gun Sales Boom After Election
Reporting

Mike Flannery CHICAGO (CBS) ― Gun sellers say the election of Barack Obama is helping them avoid the recession. Sales of new guns are booming – up an estimated 50 percent in the suburbs.
http://cbs2chicago.com/politics/gun.sales.election.2.879513.html

Well prowlland you might be of those women who is perfect and can judge others then. you are right, murphy doesn’t speak for you she speaks of you, imho.

do you have any idea how many women, myself included, find it difficult in everyday life to live a life of equality, when you know what’s holding you back and fighting it means you really won’t get anywhere?

Some women have this mindset that if they are not being held back, that other women can just lift themselves up by their bootstraps and live a life like them.

Not that easy sister. And who says your life is the utopia.

I think the point of the post is to remind us all that we are all women, with all our differences and to stop judging.

delete this if you want, but I have made a new promise to myself that i was gonna start saying what I am feeling when it comes to sexism and I’m gonna try to keep it.

“being fat is a political weapon” Murphy? Please explain more… I didn’t know I HAD a political weapon ready and handy like that….!

Karen WI – LOL your # 43
I wanted Murphy to explain her finer points too. I am not joking because I do want to know what she really meant and not misinterpret her. Besides I am really intrigued by the write up . Where are you Murphy ?

I am not fat yet but if I don’t watch it, am getting there. Its all those trips to Starbucks. Which by the way, why do people drink whipped cream ? It is sick.

UPDATE FROM SCOTUS PROTEST

1st YouTube found

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eJLrjBvlnSw

cjv Caroline Kennedy is trying to get Hillary’s old job is that what I am reading on your post. Good god I guess I shouldn’t be surprised , I’m sure BO will pull the right strings or just sent his loyal follower Hillary to put in a good word for her and make it happen.

Oh, and are we going to demand that Favreau be kicked out of his speechwriting post?

Sorry Scarlet – I see you already drew attention to the cultish nature of the latest communique from mybarackobama.

Caroline Kennedy is a co-chair of the Service Nation Grassroots Group

http://pumapac.org/forums/breaking-news/ post 65

slyt2 #49

It just never ends, does it? C Kennedy should not get any position just by her namesake..Her resume is similar to Obatic’s = void, nothing
I guess that could make her just as eligible for such a position, right? Geeesh

I saw some commnets on the utube video #47 SCOTUS update. I pray those comment are incorrect that they will only review only two cases shown today which are not related to Donofrio’s case, or my prediciton to our Constitution will apply. Here’s hoping we just don’t know the accurate info yet. In the meantime, more radio news where it seems there will be talks about it coming this Monday. I would wonder if this is actually getting some legs going mainstream (to the more cnservative news channels).

cjv

The comments are based on the “Opinion” on one person and what that person believes will happen, not what has happened in the Supreme Court…

Be patient we probably won’t hear anything till Monday… drats….

cjv

posted to quick…

There is a news conference being held at the Press Club on Monday at 1:30 PM, regarding the Natural Born Citizen issue. There will be a number of Atty’s present representing different cases that have been filed against “O”

Murphy,

Thank you for this post. It speaks to some of the conflicts I have had in PUMAville for a quite a long time. I hope this thread stays for a while. I want to have time to think about what you have said, and what I think about it.

I can say that I think this is the most important topic we have in quite some time, apropos to the divisiveness I’ve seen lately. I hope everyone stays on topic, as I would really like to hear what other PUMAs think about this subject.

SouthernGAL68

Not yet and probably won’t hear anything till Monday…

cjv

relax the shoulders and neck… take a deep breath… you just can’t hold your breath till Monday…

Goofsmom,

I came here before checking my e-mails … thanks for the update. I read through my my latest e-mails. I sent you an e-mail letting you know that I was out of town last night (work-related). I did not take my “laptop” with me because i was only gone for one night ……. bad decision! I have wondered about it all day!
So, we will have to “hurry up and wait” all through the weekend before we know something … Damn!
Anyway, thanks for keeping me posted (no pun intended)- it is much appreciated!

#9 TRG, I’m glad you post here.

I feel the same. I discovered Hot Air and Little Green Footballs, etc., because I followed topics the left would not cover.

We have a lot to learn from each other…but there are certain favorite, well-worn ragdolls that belong only to each particular faction.

===

#12 ladyhawkke, thanks for the link!

When we learn to identify overarching common ground, we’ll all be the winners.

68KarenW: As all the “old” dogs get older, each among many continues to assure that the “pups”..their own…are positioned to be in good shape in some way within the political structures or connections that the old dogs have worked so powerfully to construct and maintain…
Ted Kennedy may be lookng out for dear Caroline…and “the” tradition…Coumo’s kid needs something additionally to do toq
as a move along while papa is still around; and then, lest we forget ofe Joe..not Plumber..Biden..whose AttGen Son..should find a warm Senate seat for his patriachal inheritance when he comes back from playing soldier..We are ruled by individuals who treat our rights, our contry, our structures as their own and the pass on along of divine right of position is no less than that of the Middle Ages sometimes….

#15 medipal, I hear you. It pains me very much that none of my friends grasps this. Thank heavens Murphy does, and so eloquently!

The Favreau matter is just too outrageous. http://tdg.typepad.com/heidi_lis_potpourri/2008/12/hey-presidentelect-obama-could-you-do-just-one-thing-one-thing-to-show-that-you-understand-misogyny.html

How many people and Pumas addressed the subject in Murphy’s blog? 4? 5?
typical…

72SouthernGal: There are no positive federal laws to require upon application for qualifying to run for the Presidency that one actually present in hand bc, etc.

The Constitution says what is says about citizenship, but no law has ever been or is now on the books to manadate the terms under which that citizenship is confirmed.

It is a horrific loophole that no one I guess ever thought over time important enough to set into law…Obama in my view took advantage of this lack.\\

I am also attempting to state that the Supremem Court would be moving into the area of a more liberal court than it is by
articulating in the abscence of a law that simply by their decree there should have been one and since there should have been one they, the Court, will manadate a requirement for presentation in the abscence of the Congress having done so.

That is the kind of move that conservatives would call…the court acting as a legislative body….in other words…the Court ..making or demanding law where there is none. This Court is not that kind of court, theoretically…and that is why I believe they will not rule in the manner that would demand a presentation of bc. ..without a positvie law requiring one..It is one way to look at the issue. and I am looking attempting to look at it in a manner that would reflect this Supreme Court’s so called more conservative leanings, that is all.

On prowlland and the woman thing… When I was in high school, I was in a very small town. Our girls basketball team became really good because they worked their tails off. From ‘82 to ‘86 we never lost a district game. We won 15 State Titles in 19 years. We rarely lost to small schools. Before district, we rarely PLAYED small schools. We played and beat the mega schools around here. In the ‘85 year, there was a wreck involving the whole team–various injuries. The ‘85 year they didn’t lose a single game the whole season.

Many, MANY times during a game, it became clear that the refs were calling the game “more fairly” for the other side. They would call picky-nothing fouls on us and let the other team get away with manslaughter. When I saw that happening, instead of getting mad at the refs and the unfairness of it all, I would start yelling to cheer the girls on… “Okay. That’s okay. Just means we’re going to have to beat the refs too.” And we did on far more occasions than we didn’t.

That’s the way I feel as a woman. Is everything fair and level? No, and it never will be. Doesn’t mean I have to settle. Doesn’t mean I have to kow-tow. Just means I have to beat the refs too. And where I come from, they just call that a fair fight.

“My sister in law says if the Pumas are such a big deal, how come she and her friends have never heard of us.”

#24 ladyhawkke

It’s so infuriating and sad, isn’t it?

The masses line up and extend their arms to offer their veins to the daily drip of poison from the MSM. Our own nearest and dearest. And when we try to tell them of an uprising, it’s ridiculed….because the MASTERS haven’t informed them of our existence!

They will come around. I remember my mom screaming at me when I tried to warn her about the sea change the corporate media installation of Bush represented. Only later, when the “progessive” accepted media began to say the same things, did she embrace the ideas and act as if she’d seen it the entire time.

She’s super pissed at me this time around because I reminded her she didn’t listen to me last time. It’s too bad I let it slide last time.

But I predict your sister in law will come around and act as if she were always on board.

You can never convince someone they’ve been duped.

Think of a chick in an egg. If you peel the shell for the chick it will die. They have to peck their own way out.

TXRepGirl 12.05.08 at 6:23 pm
DWP #78. Hey, now. I AM one of those right leaning kooks!
——————————–
I know.

$72southernGal” Have I answered the question you asked?

DWP,

You’re right. Most didn’t respond to two if the best posts ever. Too political.

Hillary would turn over in her grave if she heard some of what is being said. So divisive, so egotistic, so unfocused.

Let’s look at the positive, #91 PUMAbear…

Two of the best posts ever today. And they’ve been picked up elsewhere.

Glad to see you here…there’s plenty of good fight to go around.

#90SouthernGal: Hey..on the other hand…this is also true…I thought the Court acted pretty much like a legislative body when it ruled Georgie Poorgie Pres…and said we did not have to keep counting….so…what I have said is just one way to view it and one not from a lawyer, that is for sure! I with you with all my heart hope the Court sees otherwise…and I am not being simply rhetorical when I say …one really can not know until we know and thus ..let us wait and pray and hope!

Zee,

Thanks.

Maybe a post on cupcakes will get attention.

Heidi Li,

Is there a prowl on Favreau. Now is the time. One for Hillary.

First, I *don’t* like hearing the same message, and I don’t like agreeing with people (lol!)…I will not go back to any sort of echo chamber or soft smile and nod among peers. I’m turned off by too much of the same thing.

Which is why I love that there are a few republicans here. If I wanted to only talk to liberals, I would scream out my window: Yo! Liberals! And see how they all look up at me.

I’m bored to death with pure liberal conversation. I like debate. I am finding more and more that a lot of it is tongue leashing with just one group…always being PC, and I don’t want to sound exactly like a group, otherwise I would have joined a sorority or a church.

So, I am more open as a woman now. One year ago, I didn’t say I was a feminist outloud, and I only raised my eyebrow at sexist jokes in social gatherings…now I get into it, and lay it *on* with hyper sexist comments and ask, isn’t it hilarious? I certainly don’t mind seeing a glint in a man’s eyes as he grinds his teeth.

So, I’m not going back to wherever it is I was, or wherever it is I am supposed to be. I see women differently after this year, and I see my connection to them differently as well. It wasn’t always the case that I liked women or trusted them. Now I don’t always like them or trust them but I got their back, and that’s a world of difference.

(ok, now I will continue reading)

Dances: Hey Dances…I counted about 12 people here who attempted to address Murphy’s post or am I missing your point?

I feel very strongly that SCOTUS will and must declare Obama not eligible to be President and will so instruct the Electoral College to NOT vote for Obama.

#104taggles1 : One more instances of the reason we need to renew the fine old tradition of taking along pinned on our lapels, the 3 inch classic old time hat pin….strategically placed, the boy would not have been able to roll out the car door.

WOW, Murphy! You’ve given us enough to chew on for weeks…

Kat, I appreciated your comments about “feelings.” Our societal genderization includes casting men as “rational,” while women are “emotional.” Combine that false dichotomy with the elevation of rational over emotions, and we’ve got a reason for us women not to be trusted with the big buttons at the White House because we might nuke the world in a PMS fit.
Truth is: both women and men have FEELINGS! And may be rational..or not. Right now I feel angry (a fine state of emotions), and I’m rationally contemplating how to respond to that jerk speechwriter from another post.

Love y’all (another fine feeling)!

Murphy,
Thanks for the ‘message’. Sure you were not preaching a revival meeting? lol Point taken. Even the Yellow Room…
No, I will not go quietly to my room. (I check in often, to keep up with the important stuff, just haven’t posted.) Keep posting that was tough to read, but real.

#107, nop

LOLOL! I have been thinking about the hat pin for days now. We should all wear large ones on our lapels and tell the frat brats, “don’t make me take out the hat pin!”

From the Russian Pravda on line!
Barack, The Amazing Mr. Obama
Front page / Opinion / Columnists
02.12.2008 Source: Pravda.Ru

By Mark S. McGrew

Barack Obama is truly an amazing man, with many amazing friends. He has succeeded where countless others have failed. And he has also succeeded where many before him have succeeded with the same time honored methods.
Barack, The Amazing Mr. Obama
BREAKING NEWS

He has managed to create an illusion of a Public Office that does not exist, The Office of the President Elect.

Barry Sotero, AKA Barack Obama, along with the Democratic National Committee and the Federal Election Commission have successfully ignored a Federal Lawsuit asking him to produce a valid Birth Certificate. When the time to respond to that lawsuit expired, under Federal Court Rules, they all admitted that he was not a citizen of The United States of America and deemed to have committed fraud. A normal man would have been found to have admitted he was not a US citizen.

But the man with no visible past, was blessed by a light shining from above on a Federal Judge, by having the lawsuit against him dismissed, three weeks after his non-response was proof that he is not a US citizen.

That lawsuit has since been taken to the US Supreme Court, where Obama, the Democratic National Committee and the Federal Election Commission have until December 1, 2008 to answer the complaint made against them.

Another lawsuit by another attorney against him to prove he is a US citizen has been scheduled for a conference of Justices of the US Supreme Court on December 5, 2008.

Full documentation of the Philip Berg lawsuit can be seen here at ObamaCrimes.com and a copy of a full page ad regarding this in the Washington Times can be seen here.

A full page ad in the Chicago Tribune, asking Obama to prove his citizenship can be seen here.

Other lawsuits landed in the Supreme Court of The United States can be seen here.

Alan Keyes, a Presidential candidate has also filed a lawsuit in California Supreme Court to not certify the California Electors of the US Electoral College until Obama can prove that he is a US citizen. It is those Electors who decide who shall be President of the United States of America on December 15, 2008. That lawsuit can be seen here.

Pravda.ru forum. The place where truth hurts
To read the rest of the article

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/02-12-2008/106778-Amazing_Obama-0

PUMAbear,

Your post reminded me of the book “The 51% Minority” (subtitle: How Women STILL Are Not Equal.”

Zee,
Scarlet #21

Going undercover is a plan. Would love to record one of those revivals and post it so everyone can see how Obama’s Living Dead are fleeced of their brains and pocketbooks.

It’s only fair. The Obots are always watching THEIR enemies.

thecatsmeow #109

Men as “rational” is the biggest LIE!!

I can’t count how many times I have seen a man go from zero to sixty and swing into a rage.

What is rational about stewing in feelings and then exploding in some street fight and worse?

What is rational about shutting down and imploding into a self-hating/ society hating murky cloud. Only G-d knows wth is going on through their mind.

What is rational about all the “masculine” habitudes of impulse? Impulses that destroy families and careers?

Let’s PLEASE STOP that men are rational.

Lemme cry and *feel* and complain and scream, but lord don’t make me “rational” like a man.

(Now, I *know* women have their darker sides too, but this whole “rational man” thing is the most twisted and obvious lie EVER.)

#121katinthehat: That one goes wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy back to The Greeks and the men who articulated it!

kat in your hat 12.05.08 at 7:26 pm
————-
so right Kat! so very right! they have “hormonal” changes and moods , too. If anyone has to be labeled “hormonal, they deserve the same lable, because it is very true.VERY true.

Oj is going to jail…9-33 years…for kidnapping et al…
OJ is “sorry”…bye bye Oj…later for you creep.

Obama = violence against women
Obama = insulting to women
Obama = misogyny

Sure, let’s bomb the hell via prowls outa his campaign, but one thing perhaps we might want to accept is that his whole fucking campaign and this last ‘vote’ was a fucking perfect storm of misogyny. I would expect no less from him, and no more. He is an abomination, and to EVERY woman and man who is looking upwards at him–time to get off our belly and find higher life forms. Protozoa might be a good start..

BTW Murphy, great post. but all your posts are great…and the reason it is harder to gel post election is that it is very hard to get a group of women to agree on a single issue (or group of issues) and work together because most women are suffering from PTS and are currently fighting for their lives (even if in denial). That being said, I’m ready to gel and fight on till victory is OURS!

DanceswithPumas: Rationality and Logic are realities of the human being, as well as emotion, …The male species has usurped to itself the former and relegated as unimportant the perview of the latter to the female. When a great mix of all three exists in women and men, passionate discourse is possible.

#130BrianH: I did not get that at all Brian…Murphy has many threads over 6 months and if one takes any one at any one time as indication of the sole purpose of the blog, then one would have a hellava many sole purposes to pursue.

“Rationality and Logic are realities of the human being…”
Exactly
wrong. Realities of being human have zero to do with either. They are human constructs, based on collective agreement to deal with the true nature of pure reality which manifests as chaos.

134BrianH: Great…I am so glad you did that…Excellent..and an excellent comment to post as well!! I did not want to go back to try to comment again after the abracadrabra weirdness with my computer..when I attempted to do so…

136BrianH: I understand.

Brian H.
your #130

Murphy has written blogs on plenty of subjects. I would be very interested in hearing your take on the importance of “feminism” and where it fits in to other areas of politics. Men don’t usually have much to say on the subject, so fire away.

“Pure thought wouldn’t have a reason to bother, since reasons are emotional choices”

Yup. Yup. Yup.

An article in reference to today’s case with SCOTUS.
Go to AOL Poll and vote! That is if you are interested in SCOTUS’s decision to review Donofrio’s case:

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/12/05/supreme-court-not-considering-obamas-birth-certificate-case/?icid=200100397×1214131007x1200961214

#140BrianH: Oh, Brian…were I not so tired right now I could begin to discuss this very limited, circumscribed description or definitions of emotions, the rational and the connections among and between them that you set down here in your post……but as it is my northern “friend”, I have to go for a while…For the record, however, while your comments are as ever interesting and often provacative ..rational and ….emotional as well…this combination in this post will lead to no good end…(I hope you read here irony and good will and a playfulness even as I somewhat reject what you are saying!!!) See you later and all I hope…

Dances, HELP. What do you mean, everything?

If I was a man, and I knew better, I would be beyond depressed, to be caged into only two states of hormonal connection or societal acceptance: Violent or Sexed out. It’s limiting and sad. And we all pay.
————————-
They reinforce it in each other. Knowing better is the clue, but they are working within the contraints of their our biology and socialization, which came from both and reinforce one another.

I listened to an interview of a male to female transsexual. The interviewer (male) asked an innocent enough question, what are the differences you’ve noticed since the completion of teh processes? By his reponses you could tell that the interviewer was expecting answers like, well, I get more doors held open for me, I have to wait longer to use public bathrooms becuase of the lines, etc. What the interviewer got instead was a description of an entirely new sensory, intellectual, emotional, world view. The interviewer was flabbrghasted, not being able to comprehend a world manifesting any differently than the one he experienced.
That women would experience more intensely, richly, and profoundly than he himself did. He sonded as if he was interviewing a being from another planet, to which he had no known way of referencing.

CALLING ALL COMPLAINERS
Please email the tracking numbers of the FEC Complaint letters to actioncenter@pumapac.org .
If you do not have the tracking numbers, let me know that too.
Thanks you.

Pumabear #141;
I would be very interested in hearing your take on the importance of “feminism” and where it fits in to other areas of politics. Men don’t usually have much to say on the subject, so fire away.//
========
Probably not so much.

My overriding interest in PUMA is its opposition to NObama. Whether “a woman” should “be more like a man”, or vice versa, or whether the Texas model of “love the extremes, play your role to the hilt!”, or some other approach is “best” does not seem to me to be immediately germane to Saving Civilization As We Know it from the rogue Black Hole which is threatening to pull us down.

That said, beyond the current crisis my belief is that most cultures, certainly including ours, suppress a huge amount of human potential and cause vast unwarranted suffering by cheating and harming females.

okay, I realize I am over my head.(with the discussion)…I quit!
_———-
on another note,,I have no tracking number, but the reciept is filled with numbers, nonetheless. As follows:
acct# ****
approval # 360256
transaction # 23 903530053
reciept # 001117

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Dances # 151

Yesss, I can imagine. We are from different worlds, I know that. Isn’t *that* interesting, the interviewer assumed that the difference would only be what he had visually interpreted…never thinking there was a different realm. I’d like to watch that.

BTW, Dances, your “teh” during serious convo deserves a slap and a kiss. lol.

P.S. My reference in #155, ‘rogue black hole’, is actually an astrophysics term, referring to a black hole which is traveling rapidly through interstellar space and consuming all mass it encounters along the way.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/01/080110-black-holes.html

sunshinelvr,
Not to my knowledge. The FEC Team just requested the info less than 5 minutes ago for follow-up purposes. Further questions, comments on this matter can be sent to actioncenter@pumapac.org

“But it’s still…just pitiful to see a human fall so hard.”
Nine to whatever years is getting off lightly for the murder of two people, and orphaning of 2 children.

WOW! Murphy, another great post. You can really write.

These discourses on gender and what is, or is not “normal” just blow me away. Being born with both is variously referred to as a blessing and/or a curse. It constantly amazes me~~the extent that people go to fit into gender roles.

“What the interviewer got instead was a description of an entirely new sensory, intellectual, emotional, world view. The interviewer was flabbrghasted, not being able to comprehend a world manifesting any differently than the one he experienced.
That women would experience more intensely, richly, and profoundly than he himself did. He sonded as if he was interviewing a being from another planet, to which he had no known way of referencing.”
I can so relate to that.
It’s always been my experience that most people have a difficult time relating to someone who presents as both genders (sexes) in one.
About 25 years ago, a friend told me she and everyone else had that problem with me and that, sooner or later, I was going to have to “get off the picket fence I spinned on and make a choice which I preferred to be’.
Having had the opportunity most people never do, that is, spending part of my life being as ‘male’ as possible, and as’female’ as possible, I DID make a “choice”. So, for the last 20 years, I have lived as’female’. I guess I could qualify that with “to the extent that people ‘let’ me, if I didn’t believe in each person being all that they can be.
There are traits of both that I reject. I don’t like the arrogance of men. They are totally oblivious to what is blatantly obvious to women, which is their sense of ‘male-privelege’. But, I don’t like the ‘victim-role’ so many women profess, either.
As a victim of brutal physical and sexual assault, myself, I understand that concept quite well. But *shit* happens.
As an advocate for victims of domestic violence and sexual assault, I also understand, so well, how destructive it can be to a human psyche.
Pretty much, my observation has been that the greatest obstacle to feminism and womens’ progress, is women themselves. Getting 2 or more to agree on anything, even here in this blog, is sometimes quite difficult.
So….I am what I am. I am WHO I am. And life is what happens when we are busy doing other things.
Finally, I’ve arrived at a stage where I am comfortable living in my own skin. Live and let live~~~you be you and I’ll be me.
I prefer to stick with the winners. Those who are, also, comfortable with who they are. Neither victim or victimizer.
Life isn’t fair, sometimes, but nobody ever said it would be.
However, life IS a gift. And if we aren’t part of what makes it better…for you and for me….thenwe are a part of what makes i so awful. But it’s always our choice.

Well all, I have read Murphy’s post 4 or 5 times now. I’m mulling it over and this is what I get from it.

We as a group need to unniche ourselves… stop being this or that sort of woman. Stop having knee jerk reactions to items we feel fit our “lifestyle/mindset”. We need to see ourselves as people. Not part of a subcultured culture. As long as we continue to accept the dictates of what we grew up in or who we have become in the idyllized standards of today’s society, we may as well give up. We are not free people we are stereotyped in our entire life view.

We are stereotyped to be the “women”, but how many of us are people..

That’s what I got out of the post… and it’s very thought provoking…

Sunshinelvr @ #154 & #157

You are not over your head. You are asking good questions, because I’m thinking, isn’t it interesting that some gay males seem so effeminate? I am just saying. Why is this? Is it a role they are playing? Something that is 100% natural? Is it actions via brain…or societal relativity?? What, where, how, and why?

Honestly, I have no idea.

I think this is an interesting topic though, yeah. Why are there “butches” and why are there “queens”?? Is it hormonal? Brain chemistry? Socialized procuring?

WHY?

Why are we different like this?

Good Evening Pumas.

Murphy you are absolutely right in your analysis of present day women. However those labels were attached to us by a political, social and economical world view and we must be diligent in removing those yokes.

Society had deemed the most important role for women is that of the sexual activity of conceiving and bearing offspring; procreation.
Women picked up that mantra and women even enforce these limitations via ostracizing women who did not comply.
“A women’s place is in the home!” “Why is she trying to do a man’s job?”

And even when women did manage a little freedom in the industrial world, then they became bombarded with these fashion designers (all MALE at one time) who dictated to women, by designing clothes and telling them how they should look.
Show bosoms one year, show more thighs the next with the micro-mini skirts, etc. etc. And may we never forget those dumb platform shoes.

Until we remove that projected image cast upon women as only good for (procreation=sex=children) we will continue to be subjugated people.

Perhaps Murphy, women’s only way out of our dilemma is to work toward and secure a futuristic world akin to;
“ Brave New World” written by Aldous Huxely

In Huxley’s Brave New World Revisited (Harper & Row (US) 1958, Chatto & Windus (UK) 1959[9]), written by Huxley almost thirty years after Brave New World, was a non-fiction work in which Huxley considered whether the world had moved toward or away from his vision of the future from the 1930s.

He believed when he wrote the original novel that it was a reasonable guess as to where the world might go in the future but in Brave New World Revisited he concluded that the world was becoming much more like Brave New World much faster than he thought.
Huxley analyzed the causes of this, such as overpopulation as well as all the means by which populations can be controlled. He was particularly interested in the effects of drugs and subliminal suggestion.

Re OJ- as someone who was jury “forePERSON” on both a criminal AND a civil case…. when PUMA’s mention that 9-33 years is light for a double murder- duh… this “guilty” verdict and this sentence must not- <b<MUST NOT have anything to do with the murders. This is a totally separate crime and must not be “Payback” for the murders…. sorry.

And so are skin and bones!

newOrleans: twue, so very twue

150
kat in your hat 12.05.08 at 8:06 pm

baby girls supposedly hold the gaze of a parent in infanthood far longer than a boy baby.

why?

****************************

Because the baby girl looks at the parent and says
“You expect me to do what with my life, are you serious?”

TerryDo #183…LOL!

Yeah, like wtf…you jokin’ me?

heee

Brian,
your #155

Agree, NOBAMA is a problem, but just the VISIBLE part of the problem. The BO machine was successful partly because it was able to get women to invest in his image rather than their own agendas. Women were the fulcrum of this election and the man succeeded in pushing it his way.

Still I think it would be intriguing to hear the point of view of a man, one who identifies himself a PUMA, on the relative importance of women’s issues.
Were you ever a Hillary supporter??

SouthernGAL68
As most already know, I am gay. I have asked myself these types of questions for years. Why are are some woman so masculine? Vice versa. I am sure hormones levels etc…may play a role.
==========
See? that may be true,, but also the fact that one is =taught= certain things as a child and =expected= to behave in a =certain= manner. I was “used (if you will ) as a male child because my father had only one male child older than me and he wanted a “gofer” when he did “manly or male ” things. sucha s mechanical work or manual labor ..so I greely admit than I am not nearly as “feminine’ as a couple of my sisters, yet I am not gay. But I have had people comment on how “masculine” they think I am. (but, of course, it is called “tom-boyish” )and it bothered my mother much more than me, she always snapped at the mere mention that I might be less than lady-like.

186
SouthernGAL68 12.05.08 at 9:14 pm

Kat in your hat,

As most already know, I am gay. I have asked myself these types of questions for years. Why are are some woman so masculine? Vice versa. I am sure hormones levels etc…may play a role.
What I find interesting is this… NOTE: Both my partner and I are described as feminine and people are actually shocked to see two “fems” together. I have often be puzzled by their reaction to us. They seem to be surprised by the fact that atleast one of us is NOT masculine. or because we are gay … we do not have “butch” traits.
*************************

Interesting experience, ‘They seem to be surprised by the fact that atleast one of us is NOT masculine.’

Isn’t that the whole attraction about being a lesbian is that you prefer a woman and not a woman that reminds you and looks like of a man?

And then one gets into that whole thing about why certain males like females who are more ‘male-ish’ than female-ish’ and vice-versa, without being gay.

TerryDo 12.05.08 at 9:11 pm LOL

TerryDo 12.05.08 at 9:26 pm

Isn’t that the whole attraction about being a lesbian is that you prefer a woman and not a woman that reminds you and looks like of a man?

Even that is kind of a stereotypical characterization, don’tcha think?

Upon first reading, this post seemed like an invitation to (1) get over my personal disgust with so many of the posts here & accept the fact that the blog brings in all kinds i.e. if you don’t like it then go off to your corner of the internet, and (2) by saying the personal is (not) political = renunciation of feminism if favor of something else?

I read it again and I am not sure my first interpretation was correct.

The post asks if we can leave our … beds back in our bedrooms”? Can we keep silent about our private closets of personal experience? I think Murphy’s post faults the advice which sent us to our bedrooms to look at ourselves naked in the mirror FOREVER and tricked us into thinking that our only importance to the world is what we think and how we feel about the image looking back at us. And it faults the viewpoint which so many of us hold (whether constantly or intermittently) that only “I” have the authentic experience.

Here is what I am hoping that Murphy means by this post: can we not as PUMAs recognize where my UNIQUE identity intersects others’ UNIQUE identity, and to put THOSE issues down and instead focus on the issues & agendas that we all have in common?

And what does that mean? Does it mean just stfu about your psychological angsts? Does it mean just stfu about calling people out on their blatant & covert racist remarks? Does it mean just stfu about rounding up troops to sharpen your own political or religious swords?

For me “the personal is political” was a transformative perception, and calling this a LIE was hurtful.

THE PERSONAL IS POLITICAL was and still is a powerful reminder about consciousness in my daily minute-by-minute choices. It is powerful in helping me to be aware of treacherous undermining behaviors that have their basis in the politics of power, but are presented behind the mask of social expectations & misogynist dismissals. (Smile said the man to the woman, but never the woman sez to the man. – or – If she weren’t so shrill said the man and/or the woman about the powerful woman … but never such a word is used about powerful men.)

THE PERSONAL IS POLITICAL has not outworn its relevance or utility.

The problem in my opinion, is that too many bloggers turn the POLITICAL INTO THE PERSONAL i.e. it’s all about me.

Well, it isn’t about me. It isn’t personal. It is all political.

At least, that is what I am hoping Murphy meant.

189 Sunshinelvr 12.05.08 at 9:21 pm

But I have had people comment on how “masculine” they think I am. (but, of course, it is called “tom-boyish”
*********************
I was called a tom-boy until I turned twelve and then I did a complete 360. I still wanted to play with boys but in a different way.
The reason I was called a tom-boy was because I always wanted to play with the boys, whom I found more adventurous and more active. Once I was told by a boy’s mother to go and play with the girls because I beat up her son and he went home crying. Girls apparently are just as strong as boys until they both turn twelve…

I found (girls) their play routine boring, all they wanted to do was play house with dolls or take their dolls for a walk or color in their books.. WTF

So… what d’ya wanta bet if they were having sex it wasn’t necessarily consentual?
****
“A HUSBAND has claimed he accidentally shot his wife while they were having SEX.

Timothy Havens, 38, told cops in the US he was reaching for something on the bedside table when the pistol went off.

A bullet hit his estranged wife Carolyn in the chest.

He dialled 911 and was heard saying in the emergency call: “[The gun was] right beside the bed.

“I picked it up and put it off to the side. We were having sex and it went off.”

Mrs Havens, 42, was left fighting for her life at a hospital in Dayton, Ohio.

Havens was arrested after it emerged his wife had a civil protection order against him.

He had previously spent 60 days in jail for assaulting his wife and been ordered to attend anger management classes. ”

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2007971.ece#OTC-RSS&ATTR=News

SouthernGAL68 #186: I know there are seemingly two fems from the outside, I want to know why some women are normative masculine and why some men are normative feminine. I dont understand.

I’m curious.

*duck* oh crap, code blue.

Oops! #204 got all crossed up. Should have been:
_______
Sunshinelvr 12.05.08 at 9:28 pm

And then one gets into that whole thing about why certain males like females who are more ‘male-ish’ than female-ish’ and vice-versa, without being gay.
194

Sunshinelvr 12.05.08 at 9:29 pm

that is why I don’t think it is JUST hormones.
//
============
Women with higher testosterone levels are hornier than those with lower levels. It seems that testosterone controls intensity, and estrogen orients one towards men. But the way the neural “machinery” is built and functions that is altered by hormones is critical. The chemicals have no sexiness or orientation of their own, only in their effects on the specific structures we have.

Brain Differences
Males and females are not only markedly different in the hormones that drive them, but they are also different in the way they think. The brains of men and women are actually wired differently.
George Mason University professor Robert Nadeau, the author of S/he Brain: Science, Sexual Politics, and the Feminist Movement, describes significant differences between male and female brains. In an essay on this subject in The World & I, (November 1, 1997), Nadeau observes:

“The human brain, like the human body, is sexed, and differences in the sex-specific human brain condition a wide range of behaviors that we typically associate with maleness or femaleness.” (8)
Nadeau says that the sex-specific differences in the brain are located both in the primitive regions, and in the neocortex–the higher brain regions. The neocortex contains 70 percent of the neurons in the central nervous system, and it is divided into two hemispheres joined by a 200-million fiber network called the corpus callosum.
The left hemisphere controls language analysis and expression and body movements while the right hemisphere is responsible for spatial relationships, facial expressions, emotional stimuli, and vocal intonations.

Men and women process information differently because of differences in a portion of the brain called the splenium, which is much larger in women than in men, and has more brain-wave activity. (9) Studies have shown that problemsolving tasks in female brains are handled by both hemispheres, while the male brain only uses one hemisphere.

Differences in the ways men and women communicate is also a function of sex-specific areas of the brain. Women seem to have an enhanced awareness of “emotionally relevant details, visual cues, verbal nuances, and hidden meanings,” writes Nadeau. Similarly, while male infants are more interested in objects than in people, female infants respond more readily to the human voice than do male infants.

TerryDo #201

Me too! I *loved* playing with boys. I was always climbing and fighting and setting traps and building forts. Now, I was a very pretty little girl, no matter, I loved roughing it, and didn’t care about getting cuts and scrapes and bruises and dirty.

The girls came out to play in dresses, and I was stupefied, like: How are you supposed to come climbing trees like that? Or, put on some pants! It hurts going on the skateboard down the hill when you crash.

The girls liked to sit on the steps and watch us all have the time of our lives.

Isn’t it strange that most treatises on the differences between male and female are written by~~~~males?

So-sounds like everyone is saying “it’s just the wiring’? does that mean the ‘teaching’ has nothing to do with male- or female-ness?

Mountainsong…. “The kiss” by G. Klimt? I know it well!

Murphy: I have always led with my mind and that is why I still have it. My mother led with hers. She demanded I not follow the crowd any crowd…girls or boys..she demanded I think for myself…in fact more than I would have liked when I was growing up but it made for a confidence that the mind I had, and as far as she was concerned the mind everyone had in female or male body and person was the greatest gift we are given. I was lucky. It took me many many years to understand that many women and men did not have that experience. I never identified with the women’s movement in the 70s as a result but I learned a lot of why many felt they needed to be a part of that and even here now I continue to hear in 2008 the same need from some. We must teach our female and male children that they must both lead with their minds and not their sexual prowess or lack therof and we must teach them both that the feelings each have and express are human and not some sort of screwed up manifestation of rightness or better than…the one or the other. Personhood…that is the issue and I do not see anymore personhood in the power mongers women or men of this election cycle than any other..I see nothing but superficial bullshit that belies the depth of the human soul and the necessity of thought all the damn place.

Kat….. me three! HA! It was so ironic because my mother was soooo “girly” and she had this little “rugged” tomyboy for her only child. On time, I told her to catch the ball and she responded “if you throw that thing at me and I break a nail” …
I was always having to be taken to the emergency room, because of softball and motorcycles. One day my mother said “Oh, you are going to regret all this rough and tumble activity one day, if you have scars” ….
We were very opposite, so I guess that blows the “nurture” theory out! HA! (Nature vs Nurture)

oooh, I have to catch up, but I just saw…

Sunshinelvr, yeah, I think it might be wiring and also social. Maybe some perfect mix.

Cause I know that I loved playing with boys, and it was never a gender thing until they started trying to kiss me! Which was kinda nice but I was still tom-boyish and would HIT them even if I liked it. (lol)

I think it’s hormones and brain. It’s not a choice. No. Course, we can choose to indulge… but no, it’s natural biologically: homosexuality and heterosexuality, plus then we are supposedly on a sliding Kinsey scale…you know, a lil dab’ll do ya.

But I don’t know. Does anyone?

“we have the majority, the children, the grandchildren, and the aunts.”

Heterosexual view, but aside from that.

Heterosexual women have always had that power, including the men you fuck. So, where the fuck have you been for at least these past 50 fucking years? Your candidate didnt win, so now you’re all feminists… while the women who did all the heavy lifting, the fruits of which every single goddamned one of your have benefitted from, are thrown under the bus?

What is this, Puma PACs Get Thrown Under the Bus tri-monthly festivity?

Latest on the MN recount…. note that the recount seems to have picked up about 500 votes for the repub. Even the 133 “missing” ballots won’t make a difference. HOWEVER, the important thing here is the thousands of “contested” ballots still sitting in limbo:
“UPDATE 1-Minnesota Senate recount nears end: Coleman leads
(Updates with recount complete, official’s comments)

By Todd Melby

MINNEAPOLIS, Dec 5 (Reuters) – A recount in Minnesota’s U.S. Senate race between Republican incumbent Norm Coleman and Democrat Al Franken lurched to an inconclusive end on Friday with Coleman leading by just hundreds of votes out of 2.4 million cast for the two of them.

The outcome of the Nov. 4 election will not be final until as many as 6,000 ballots challenged by the two candidates are examined by a state canvassing board starting on Dec. 16. A court fight could follow.

Although Democrats have already claimed 58 out of the 100 Senate seats in the 111th U.S. Congress that convenes on Jan. 6, both parties have poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into the recount, with Republicans hoping to gain ground and Democrats hoping to increase their majority.

Even if comedian-turned-politician Franken wins, the Democrats would still be one shy of the 60-seat majority they need to end Republican procedural roadblocks.

The recount has swung back and forth between the two men, with batches of uncounted ballots being discovered here and there as well as clerical errors changing the totals.

With the recount virtually complete on Friday, Minnesota Secretary of State Mark Ritchie said Coleman led Franken by 787 votes. Local newspapers put Coleman’s margin at about 200 votes, tallying ballots that had previously been challenged.

The vote count right after the election showed Coleman with a 215-vote lead.

Officials combed through a Minneapolis church where many college students voted and a warehouse where ballots were stored in search of a packet containing 133 missing ballots.

“It’s just one packet, it’s not very alarming,” Ritchie, a Democrat, said in an interview with Reuters. The canvassing board can accept the precinct’s original election night vote total as an alternative, he added.

“It doesn’t surprise me there are a few bumps along the way,” he said.

‘SICK OF IT’

Coleman’s side expressed concern about partisanship after Minneapolis’ Democratic mayor, R.T. Rybak, appeared at a news conference to announce the search.

“People are sick of it, people want this over, this has been a long and nasty Senate race,” said Steven Schier, a political scientist at Minnesota’s Carleton College.

“Frankly, people don’t much like either one of these candidates,” he said, noting Coleman and Franken each got about 41 percent of the vote, with independent candidate Dean Barkley getting the rest.

Although the public may be tired of the sniping between the two camps, a Minneapolis Star-Tribune story that offered readers a chance to judge disputed ballots for themselves was the most popular on its website. (Writing by Michael Conlon and Andrew Stern; Editing by Peter Cooney) ”

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN0547993120081205

kat in your hat and terry do
When I was a kid, my Dad was an umpire in a southern basball league and we spent one summer living in VA. In those days, girls didn’t wear pants. I remember ruining two dresses (about all I had, as we were poor and it was during the depression) climbing trees in back of the house where we boarded. I believe the lady of the house was quite shocked that I was so less than feminine.
By the way, this house had a servants/delivery/Negro entrance in the back, which even though I was a child shocked me. I was also shocked by water fountains and bathrooms labeled White and Negro

#224 murphy,

google is nasty. I use google images daily. I cannot say how many times I have seen Hillary look like a devil or superimposed on a porn star, and Obama would *actually* have a halo light around him.

Google is *scum*…run by men. They BLOW.

This is another reason why women need more power in all areas.

If I make a whole bunch of male pix on flicker will they pop up on google images? I’ll do it just for posterity.

Mountainsong … I am going to look the one you are talking about up! Now I am curious! When you said “the Kiss” … I thought of Klimt

Sunshine, I think it has much more to do with what we’ve learned than with our “wiring.” Communication research about gendered differences primarily focused on the differences between women and men in the first decade or so; but more recent research moved away from the women/men from different planets stance. Gender is a construction. Our parents gender us; society genders us (all in binary form). We perform gender and, then as we get a little older, we become co-creators in the gendering of ourselves. And we learn these behaviors so early in our lives – before we can think critically about our language, nonverbals, how me use them – that it’s hard for us to think critically about it all.
Mountainsong (169) reminded us, though, that it’s even more complex. Humans have constructed a binary world, and then defined “femininity” and “masculinity.” Yet there are “femininities” and “masculinities” – many more ways than one way to be female or male.
We create those boxes to check off in the demographic forms, but who are we really?

Campbell Brown “upset” by Hillary’s “non-sexist response” to the “groping” photo, her (Hillary)’s spokesperson supposedly saying it’s all good-natured fun:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/05/campbell.brown.clinton/index.html

Fool around with your body image and awareness. With tricky technology.

goofsmom: As you would say…nitey-nite, goofsmom!

SouthernGal: What print, if I may ask?

241catsmeow: Embodied spirits…or persons…able to engage in thought, intuition, imagination, physicality of all kinds, and love.

SouthernGAL68 12.05.08 at 10:35 pm I LOVE that print. It just says it all. (for me)

Neworleans –Tanya Chalkin … KISS

Anderson and Crowley talking on CNN about the HRC mannequin pic; seemed bemused that Hillary “blew it off”. Crowley: “Not everyone in the Obama camp can be counted on as adults (on occasion!)…”

Duh.

#207 Murphy

STFU about your personal perception of racist remarks
STFU about women who didnt achieve maturity along the exact same goddamned enlightening path as you did
STFU about what it means to be a woman in a man’s world and realize that the WORLD IS OURS FOR THE TAKING. it belongs to US — we have the majority, the children, the grandchildren, and the aunts.
================
I do not believe you are saying that the rules about not making racist or sexist posts have been set aside.

My point above was actually about using our minds. There was nothing there about thinking with my vagina.

However, I think I heard that I should STFU.

oh crap. I love all your comments and feel like…shoot! ok, keep talking.

Yes, The Kiss, Thank you…I know that image.

DancesWithPumas 12.05.08 at 8:16 pm

You have email.

catsmeow: Yes, it would and for me it really is the spirit that moves through the eyes and language and mind and personality of the person that has always moved me regarding humans..always…but then, catsmeow, a number of my friends over the years have said…with affection I am happy to say, that I live somehow as if the second coming is already a given…If it has come, by the way, I sure the hell have missed it…especially these last 11 months!

ok, I am not caught up yet, but props to BrianH.

I am swinging my long hair and pointing at the clouds, and BrianH is not even nonplussed in thr slightest, still posting, like “what’s up.”

oh honey, good for you. lol.

268
Seattlegirl 12.05.08 at 10:55 pm I think this post of Murphy’s is a classic and she outdid herself this time. I hope it remains for discussion awhile, unless she has another profound observation awaiting us.

SouthernGAL68 #264

Yes, I think it is gradations of attraction, do you not?

I *know* there are full on magnetic/ biological inclinations.

But I know of young women/ and *grown* women who have hit on me, (esp. in my city) and I was like…ha ha ha…UM, I’m gettin’ out of here before…

Do you not think there are levels?

http://www.partizane.com/node/493
Who are Sheila Bair and Brooksley Born?

Story worth reading, and these women are worth supporting!

BrianH …. I would be dead by now (I am sure) …

I would have “bucked” when they tried to impose some there “archaic” customs on me …

My partner told me one day “there is NO WAY I would go to a Middle Eastern country with you”! I asked why? She said because … You would get us put in prison, killed, or stoned, because of that mouth of yours”

Explain me this. My sister is a lesbian. Over the years, have gotten to know many of the women she dated.

I have seen

fem fem
fem butch
butch butch
butch fem

Maybe someone is just attracted to the person?

#272Dances: I can only specifically speak to one of your points but to that I will: A woman not having to have a man sign for a credit card for a woman did not come from lesbian action.

This very important first came from the mind and hands of none other than Congresswoman Lindy Boggs of Louisiana who set up as well the first ever Woman;s Caucus …in Congress and Lindy, as Tip O’Neil said, could get anybody man or woman to give her what she wanted.

Lindy once said that…I have always found that one can really get a lot done if one does not have to get credit for it. She was powerful, beloved, and no pushover….

#279taggles: That is why I posted on “person” above a couple of times.

taggles1:

fem fem butch butch, maybe just attracted to the person…? But certain gay women are attracted to a *type* and why not??

Gays are *not* just attracted to the person, just like straights are *not* just attracted to the person.

That’s why I asked up, like way up, WHYEEEE are some gay people normative female/ normative male when they physically represent the other gender.

I wanna know.

NewOrleansPuma 12.05.08 at 11:07 pm
#272Dances: I can only specifically speak to one of your points but to that I will: A woman not having to have a man sign for a credit card for a woman did not come from lesbian action.
———————–
Yeah, right. Just like the “I’m going to bankrupt the coal industry” flew out of the media producers brain and onto TV.
The FACT of the matter is lesnians, not having the luxury of leeching off spouses, had more of invested in being financially stable/independant. Lesbians (conscious lesbians) were involved in almost ALL the socio-political movements of teh 60s, 70s, and 80s (can’t speak to the 90s, I was unavailable on many levels) movements. That was partly because lesbians had more time available not raising men and children, and all that that entails.

atypical 292- better question: Why WOULD she forsake you?

Kat … YOU HAVE NO CLUE! (Please do not get me wrong, I loved my mother (still do … she is deceased) … She was just one of those stereotypical “Southern belles”! She was what I would describe as ULTRA Fem.

My mother put me in ballet when I was ONLY two years old. When I was about 20 or so, I asked her this … Mother, if could close you eyes and pick one thing you wanted me to be … what would it have been???
I almost “fell out” at her answer … she said ….
a Ballerina!

Murphy,
I’ve told you many times that loyalty is one of my strengths as well as my curse. I’ve also told you that I wasn’t leaving Puma PAC until I am invited to do so.

“murphy 12.05.08 at 11:15 pm
ding dang it dances you ARE this blog — the pictures, the PROWLS, the organized mailing lists –the action teams –”

Well, if that is the case… I’m reversing most of your main blog! PUMAs and others, pay not attention to the woman behind the dashboard! ;p
—————–
Murphy, I think with the last disagreement we had a couple of months ago, we’ve learned to argue with each other. That’s all we’re doing now… except we’re doing it publically.

And goddamn it… I hate to say this in the middle of an arguement, BUT do not back down or wither when someone stands up to you! No one is freaking indespensible.

KAT … LOL! I have never met you before, but somehow … I believe it! HA!

294
kat in your hat 12.05.08 at 11:22 pm
No, Babe….it’s your mind…..lol

Dances: I am not knowledgeable about the issues you listed. But I do know what I am talking about re where the requirement for not signing for credit cards came from…and it came from Lindy Boggs and she did start the First Women/s Caucus and she did it because it was an issue she felt strongly about. She pushed every member on the Banking Commitgte and she did that as well as brought up many other issues for all women at the time and now. And my mother?
She built a church, a gym, got an underpass built under a railroad tracks so we and other kids could go to school without danger of trains killing us, got a red light put on one of two major highways for the same reason, got a fence put across a drainage canal so we all would not fall in a drown …raised thousands of dollars every year to give to the Church parish…picketed city Hall in the 1950s…as President of a small Mother;s CLub…in the city here of a small Catholic school…She did this as she also cooked every meal and starched shirts…My point? This was social action and change of substance. Women had not in that period of the 50s ever done these kinds of public acts, expressiing their own power and worth…She and others did it for the reasons and the people they cared about…just as women of all times have done so….Had she and some of these other women directed this energy and attention to gathereing money or business, we sure the hell would not all have lived in shotgun rentals almost all of our lives. The 60s did not just happen..poof…and as far as I am concerned both you and Murphy, with great love and affection to both, need to sit back and go get some oral histories of people older than both of you before each of you claims or disclaims what you both have tonight. Now please do not come after me ..either one of you, because I love you both..your spirits..but like it or not…it is time for a fricking time out.

Karen…….

Women do better in Scandinavia
http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/12/05/guest-post-from-dr-kvavik-hurra-for-kvinnfolk-i-scandinavia-or-%e2%80%98hurray-for-women-in-scandinavia%e2%80%99-gender-quotas-and-the-40-rule/

And, for the record, if I don’t hear the word RACIST for 100 years, I will be happy.

THAT BEING SAID, I accept and apologize that I said something that was perceived as racist, because that was NOT my intention.

THAT BEING SAID, I think that VAGINA trumps COLOR and always has AND MUST if women are ever to stop being treated like shit.

THAT BEING SAID, I like mean women a lot, unless they are being mean to me…..(thought a lil’ humor might be a good thing)

I, however, have just accepted that this is my lot in life and that’s all there is to it…. everyone “has their cross to bear” and this is mine….

That pretty much says it all. For alot of us.

Mountainsong…. I feel for you. I can’t imagine what you must have gone through. I always knew what sex I was and there was no doubt. I fought wearing dresses, because I didn’t want an easy way for a man to hurt me… but I knew I was female and never had a problem with that. You have your “cross to bear” too….. and have come to terms with it. I salute you, Mountainsong…. you are an example to all of us.

Murphy-NOP, You’re referring to a time when ALL women were considered heterosexual, diseased or misguided. There were plenty of lesbians in the straight jacket of conformmity. We got NO help from straight women and we had to brave all of the economic turmoil with crappy emotional baggage, social stigma and even imprisonment. WHERE WERE OUR SISTERS, THEN. Not a peep.

You can’t even begin to imagine what that was like.

Misogyny. Hate. Physical attacks. We knew what it was like and we jumped in when the civil rights era began. The term feminist was abandoned by straight women because of the backlash against lesbians. Why do you think Ms. Magazine is run by Gloria Steinem?
Women used to have to “prove” they weren’t lesbians by sleeping with men. The price we paid in this country was huge.

If we were in some countries, we wouldn’t be allowed to live. Lesbian feminism was a matter of SURVIVAL.

some people might say you were ‘blessed’

I should add that I fought wearing dresses… but it never DAWNED on me that I had been molested until I was about in my 30’s. I wondered why men shunned me…. never dreamed it was because I had a “do not touch” sign all over me. It was only in my 30’s when I started putting two and two together… this was after my brother was dead. Suddenly all the pieces fell in place…. the vagina that was stretched too large to ever be able to use a tampon; the bladder infections; the things I said as a child; the dr saying I wasn’t a virgin. But I never doubted my being female, even though I was feminine to a point… but by fighting the dresses I wasn’t. Sometimes I wish I could remember… and sometimes I’m glad I can’t….

oh daMN, I need to catch up on posts. i am going to be all alone before I read em all.

You people stick around and toast marshmellows please.

Why aren’t we upset with Hill’s stance on this? I am and I wrote her and told her so. She is not in this alone; she is all of us.

Campbell Brown “upset” by Hillary’s “non-sexist response” to the “groping” photo, her (Hillary)’s spokesperson supposedly saying it’s all good-natured fun:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/05/campbell.brown.clinton/index.html

Hi everybody, hope everyone’s having a laid-back Fri nite. I know I am, but I am also still processing this completely disgusting and offensive photo w/these 2 yahoos groping Hillary.

TOPIC: HILLARY photo on Facebook – WHERE is the OUTRAGE.
And YES I just turned on CNN to see WHAT or HOW they would report on this, and lo & behold there’s Candy Crowly telling Anderson Cooper, “Well, if she’s (hillary) not going to quibble over it, I certainly am not going to quibble about it.”

WHERE is the OUTRAGE, we need to do a major PUMA Prowl & by that I mean not just email, but FAXES and PHONECALLS. Just like we went to bat for that candidate yesterday, we need to go to bat for Hillary, who possibly at this moment is pondering the wisdom of her decision to accept the SOS post, and apparently saying nothing, PROBABLY thinking “someone will go to bat for me on THAT one.”

Heidi Li 12.05.08 at 4:54 pm
“Oh, and are we going to demand that Favreau be kicked out of his speechwriting post?,”

Yes Heidi that’d be great, but absolutely what we need to demand is a
> > > > > > > PUBLIC APOLOGY. < < < < < < <

jennifer, I’ve always had a connection with you. Of course I LOVE animals. I don’t remember my mom’s aunt very well, but I remember she had a big ol’ house that was full of animals that nobody wanted…. 3 legged dog, blind cat etc. I think I inherited some of that. Maybe because I’ve been so hurt over my lifetime… never really having male or female friends for very long (more of my story is that because of the church I was brought up in I HAD to wear dresses in school different than everyone else, and couldn’t watch tv or go to movies or anything- never learned social skills during those developmental years)…. that I’ve always turned to animals because of their unconditional “forever” love… I think animals is God’s way of showing His (God’s) love for us….. The animals are showing us the best way that they can what real love is…

If this silly speechwriter gave a serious apology, HIllary would have to give a serious answer. Do we want to put her through that?

If anything we should demand that Obama fire him — like Hillary did that man who said ‘cocaine’ and then Ferraro, etc etc.

Anyway it’s Obama people doing this stuff that we should be targeting — not Hillary people like Rendell and Summers putting their feet in their mouths. Their respective mouths I mean, you dirty mindeed people.

3315PumaBear: I am referring to a specific time with specific human issues and women whatever their circumstance had to find their own voice and their own actions…you had yours, they had theirs…why are not both of these fights for personhood important. They are. I do not buy somehow it was easier for he likes of my mother and her generation. I saw these women struggle to survive and not to be put down by power sturcutes and men within them who did not care beyond their own self interest. I do not except your distinction as somehow more worthy of grief. There is grief enough to go around and when this sob Obama moves forward it will be well shared I assure you. I have to go.

Correction: I do not accept your distinction…

Karen WI,

My heart was broken by your story. I am honored that you felt safe among us, safe, even though we seem to disagree on so much. Welcome.

I am not Biblical at all. But your insight into the meaning of that Biblical text was so personal and profound. Sigh. Jesus was an astonishing being.

We have found a place for sisterhood to reside. Thanks.

KarenWI 12.05.08 at 11:49 pm
I know dwp…. I still have the fingerprints on my throat, LOL.. but I’m still here you see.
———————
Why do I want to strangle you all over again??
Of course you’re here! No one escapes Puma PAC…
didnt you read the sign on the door when you arrived?
Besides, you’re a survivor, and all survivors are stronger for having survived.
welcome back.

Earthquake…

Hope all our Pumas are safe and of course all other people!

5.5 =on the richeter scale
Date-Time Saturday, December 06, 2008 at 04:18:42 UTC
Friday, December 05, 2008 at 08:18:42 PM at epicenter

Location 34.814°N, 116.421°W
Depth 5.9 km (3.7 miles)
Region SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA

Distances
26 km (16 miles) WNW (293°) from Ludlow, CA
56 km (35 miles) E (97°) from Barstow, CA
56 km (35 miles) WNW (297°) from Bagdad, CA
188 km (116 miles) ENE (63°) from Los Angeles Civic Center, CA

Thank you for sharing your story, tonight, Karen. The whole blog has been very moving.
That particular scripture always has a sobering affect on me, too. Thanks, again.

341
DancesWithPumas 12.06.08 at 12:06 am

“Of course you’re here! No one escapes Puma PAC…
didnt you read the sign on the door when you arrived?”

***********************
As I read you post, this sentence flew out at me and this thought occured to me, for the sign on the PumaPac door;

You can check out anytime you like
but you can never leave!

DancesWithPumas 12.06.08 at 12:09 am
of course it was! ((((hugs to you ))))

KarenWIL

where are you? you made me cry like a newborn! holy sh*t!!!

Well, it might not mean much, but I’m here for you. Honestly, I don’t know why I am shocked, but I am, and I’m so…well, I’ll be thinking about you honey. Good for you for being so open….*sigh*…again, I just wish I could ***BUST through the computer*** and hold you, but ya know.

Anyway, thanks.

Kat …

Yes! I was quite interesting. You said, that your mother told you “to fight back”! I think that you mean that as a “figure of speech”.
One time, I got into a “scuffle” on the softball field (at one of my games) when I was a kid. I remember my mother saying to me how embarrassed she was by that! She said, “girls with do not fight”!
So, you can imagine how she took the news about me being gay … it went over like a lead balloon!

I agree with Murphy. We have to think about politics in a more impersonal manner. Passions are strong motivators, though, and those that have personal issues still have the right to participate. Maybe I’m just too tired to engage in the debate, but I think each person is going to make decisions according to his/her own process. Good night!

BTW, I’m happy to see Ladyhawke was here earlier today!

341 DWP
didnt you read the sign on the door when you arrived?
———————————————————
Dante – abandon hope all ye who enter here
Sartre – no exit
London underground – mind the gap

which sign?

What’s past is past… just like this stupid, stolen election!! We can’t, unfortunately, go back in time to change the votes, anymore than I can go back and change what happened when I was a young girl. However, whatever we can do to fix the election system for next time, or to get the idiots out who messed up the democrat party that I liked (like Pelosi), or to keep that lyin’ fraud out of the white house before he gets sworn in (short of shooting him), I’m in favor of… because that isn’t “past” it’s “now” and “future”!

#325 atypical,
Campbell Brown’s article was fine until I got to the conclusion. I mean, I’m sure at this point in time Hillary is asking herself why she dismissed such a horrible act against her that way. But most women who have worked in the public sector, & especially in male-dominated fields, as I have, will immediately “get” why Hillary had that knee-jerk dismissive response.

When you work in a male dominated corporate culture such as is our current political system – and especially if you have just accepted a promotion – which Senator > > > Secretary of State certainly qualifies as – your mindset is very much with the “company.” Right now Hillary is mentally aligning herself with her new boss.

Yes, that would be Obama. No, it doesn’t mean she’s not going to be her own person once she’s SOS. She’ll always be everything she’s been: smart, capable, independent. And able to OVERLOOK RAMPANT SEXISM in order to do what she loves – be a politician.

Long story short, if Campbell had stopped to think about it, instead of blasting Clinton for her response, Campbell would be BLASTING Obama and his staffers and demanding more of an explanation, she would be DEMANDING an INTERVIEW with them to ask them “What the hell were you THINKING???, how did your mama raise you, aren’t you embarrassed for your actions??”.

She’s a REPORTER and JOURNALIST, and that is her JOB.

karen..your childhood sounds similiar to mine in the fact that girls ONLY wore dresses…no TV, only ‘approved’ books & magazines, no movies, no ball games –but MUCH church..always! I DO remember being hurt as a child, but was always told that it was because of my ‘tom-boyishness’. I don’t remeber exactly what happened, but I , also, hated dresses. maybe for the reason you stated, maybe for the fact that one could not climb trees or play baseball in them (unless it was just family around).We lived on a farm and the ‘delcate’ girl-children were not allowed to be around the animals –even our DOGS–when they were giving birth. or being ..ahem..impregnated. But, I knew early on that I liked men, as a matter of fact my Mom labeled me a ‘hussy’ and it took me many years to figure that out.. and it still hurts my feelings.apparently she thought (or knew?) that I had more sexual knowledge that I knew I had. Because I was totally stupid about sex. Ah, well, like you, we adjust and go.
—
I am very sorry you had such a burden put upon you in childhood. I am a big proponent of the death penalty in cases of child sexual abuse. I don’t believe people that do that can be rehabilitated and I don’t want my tax dollars spent to keep the slime alive.

–KarenWI:
I just want you to find love, whatever feels right to *you*. I know, I know!!…I am just saying. i want you happy. xo.

–
SouthernGAL68 #353, no, my mom meant *fight*…lol. See, I was a pretty girl, and there were lots of problems because of it. Boys liked me–girls were angry with me. So, I did come home once with a nasty bruise on my face and sort of a nasty scratch, and my mom *cried* like a baby cause she thought my face was scarred, and really, the only thing that calmed her down was that I told her it wasn’t that bad and that *she* should see the *other* one. (destroyed) Wasn’t my mom’s style at *all* to advocate violence, but I remember her perking up and asking, “Really?”…lol.

I was an only daughter to single mother, which is like….pseudo husband/ son/ daughter. Truly.

My dear friends Molly & Phoebe want me to take them for a walk.

good night all

Was there any news on the BC Supreme Court decision today?????????????????????????

KarenWI:

#366

I just want you to be aware that that is the second post that you have put yourself down. (I know, I know, don’t read too much, and don’t be silly.)

You called yourself ugly.

Earlier, you called yourself fat, Karen.

Let’s take it easy on you, ok. Sometimes jokes aren’t funny. I’m going to email you soon. gnight sweetheart.

goofsmom 12.05.08 at 5:20 pm

cjv
BillieJo 12.06.08 at 12:37 am
================
goofsmom 12.05.08 at 5:20 pm

posted to quick…

There is a news conference being held at the Press Club on Monday at 1:30 PM, regarding the Natural Born Citizen issue. There will be a number of Atty’s present representing different cases that have been filed against “O”

Billie Jo ..most of the posts around 60-61 have info about the bc issue good (for real ) everyone -sweet dreams!

got it

Sunshinelvr 12.06.08 at 12:47 am

goofsmom 12.05.08 at 5:20 pm

cjv
BillieJo 12.06.08 at 12:37 am
================
goofsmom 12.05.08 at 5:20 pm

posted to quick…

There is a news conference being held at the Press Club on Monday at 1:30 PM, regarding the Natural Born Citizen issue. There will be a number of Atty’s present representing different cases that have been filed against “O”
———–
I checked his website and he is not going to that news conference -

“DONOFRIO NOT INVOLVED WITH NATIONAL PRESS CLUB EVENT ON DEC. 8, 2008
Posted in Uncategorized on December 6, 2008 by naturalborncitizen

ALL REPORTS STATING I WILL BE AT THE NATIONAL PRESS CLUB ON MON DECEMBER 8, 2008 ARE FALSE.

I will not be there and am not in any way associated with this event.

Please pass this information out to the blogosphere far and wide. The event has nothing to do with me.

World Net Daily has their story wrong. I am not involved and nobody is representing my case at this event.

Arianna Huffington, You are a discredit to your gender.

I’m all worried now.

Sunshinelvr, big kisses to you. xoxoxo. gnight cutie.

Kat … me to! (I WAS RAISED BY A BUNCH OF WOMEN) My mother was married 3 times (I used to joke with her and tell her she was trying to keep up with Liz Taylor) So, between marriages … I was the lille tomboy around the house! I know exactly what you mean by everything you said in your post! However, when “the girls” wanted to kick my ass … her advise to me was “kill them with kindness”! When you are a young girl … that is earier said than done! HA!

Funny thing …how our childhoods have such an impact on who were are to a degree. As a child my mother would NEVER let me cut my hair off above my shoulders … girls have longer, pretty hair. How crazy is this … I have always worn my hair (up until about 8 months ago) around shoulder length. I am 40 years old. Well, a dear friend of mine got breast cancer …..we (the close friends) all cut our hair short for her! (NOT A BUZZ CUT OR ANYTHING) Well some did! It was soooo “freeing” to not have all that hair any longer … I have worn it short since! It was like I had to have an excuse to cut it … how weird is that?

Good night kat

Has anyone else noticed how some women have speech patterns that rise at the end of a sentence like they’re asking a question? It started about 6 years ago and now you hear it in NPR interviews. Only women do it. Wonder what THAT’s about.

MKfromLA 12.06.08 at 12:20 am

341 DWP
didnt you read the sign on the door when you arrived?
———————————————————
Dante – abandon hope all ye who enter here
Sartre – no exit
London underground – mind the gap
which sign?
————————————-
B and C
or maybe Murphy’s sign: YIELD

Everybody is saying the beer bottle is in Hillary’s mouth–look again, it’s in her NOSTRIL.

That picture with Hillary is disgusting and i am sure she could have pushed them away.Anyone of her stature would never have to except that without doing something about it.

keep your claws in, if you use them at all use them on Air America or on HuffPo,
===================

Right. We have plenty of real targets. Go to articles like Campbell Brown’s http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/05/campbell.brown.clinton/index.html#cnnSTCText
or any other comment place and let THEM have it! Tell Obama to fire that speechwriter!

Puma Responders has got an additional website now,
http://pumaresponders.blogspot.com/
with some juicy targets at one click.

I have a good one for yall … Southerns say, “I tell you what”! That’s it – nothing comes afterward. HA!

PUMAbear 12.06.08 at 12:21 am

Brian H.
Your #257

Duh?

Sounds like you agree with the breezy write-off of sexist misogyny in the “Obama camp” as just not mature.//
==========
PB, kiss ma grits. I have put up with enough instant conclusion-jumping “mind-fucking” people, mostly women actually, who know and assume what I (or anyone) else is thinking on miniscule and inadequate evidence.

Nijma 12.06.08 at 2:04 am

Here’s a link to a language blog that talks about young girls’ use of this question type sentence ending, complete with little recordings.

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=874

BTW, this blog has mocked Sarah Palin’s speech patterns.//
=========
In my experience, about 75% of people under the age of 25 use it.

The term for it is “up-speak”? Every sentence ends with a rising tone, like a question? It’s like asking for agreement and permission to continue each time? I find it annoying as hell?

sandipuma 12.06.08 at 2:25 am
That picture with Hillary is disgusting and i am sure she could have pushed them away.
———————-
That picture of Senator Hilalry Rodham Clinton is a cardboard cutout.

Dances i noticed that afterward and i still think it’s disgusting and degrading to all women and their families. After i read then looked back at the picture, anyway thats Obamas close freinds for ya. I will never have a good word to say about Obama and if it be for the next 4 years i will never look at him on TV.I will never listen to his voice and i do not believe Hillary found this humorous.

BrianH 12.06.08 at 3:19 am
Nijma 12.06.08 at 2:04 am

Here’s a link to a language blog that talks about young girls’ use of this question type sentence ending, complete with little recordings.

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=874

BTW, this blog has mocked Sarah Palin’s speech patterns.//
=========
In my experience, about 75% of people under the age of 25 use it.

The term for it is “up-speak”? Every sentence ends with a rising tone, like a question? It’s like asking for agreement and permission to continue each time?
==================

Kind of like that. “Are you with me so far? Are you ready for more? Do you want a chance to talk now?’

Hm, Asian males, black males, white males under 25…. The Tech Support demographic…. Or foreigners talking fast and pausing between sentences to see if they’ve lost the listener. 800 number style.

(And rap songs?)

Speakin’ up:

In my experience, about 75% of people under the age of 25 use it.

The term for it is “up-speak”? Every sentence ends with a rising tone, like a question? It’s like asking for agreement and permission to continue each time?
==================

Kind of like that. “Are you with me so far? Are you ready for more? Do you want a chance to talk now?’

Hm, Asian males, black males, white males under 25…. The Tech Support demographic…. Or foreigners talking fast and pausing between sentences to see if they’ve lost the listener. 800 number style.//
=========
I’ve asked some young ‘uns working with clients on the phone to cut back on it, and they don’t even know they’re doing it. It’s “embedded”. That, and saying “Awesome” for every kind of agreement or approval, comes across, like, like it’s just, like, teen-talk, like, and older clients (which is the large majority), find it bothersome, even superficial and nonsensical. They’re like, Really? Like, very surprised to discover that their speech patterns aren’t, like, universal, you know?

A sharpened tongue-in-cheek proposal to nominate Webb as Director, CIA. The comments are in the same tone, and one includes this goody:
“And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Washington to be born?”

_________
And for those following the Canadian no-confidence, change-of-minority-government-coalition saga/farce, It’s Over. The boat done sprung a bunch of leaks, and sunk.
Oops!

BrianH, The crisis is not over, merely postponed until January 26, 2009.
It will start all over again then with the budget.

cjv #40, you said everything right there, Kennedy supported Obama, Kennedy has a provenance. I think those two things will mean more than anything else who gets Hilary’s senate seat.

Murphy, this post is amazing. You have managed to put your finger on the exact thing that divides us.

Hillary gave us the gift of uniting us. Now, we have to keep focused on the issues that matter and move mountains (as only women can), to get them done.

Good for you Jen. I’m in the corner whimpering. Rough night around here.

Time for a new post! Interesting to learn if I read NQ I am a ” a Jesus loving, red-blooded capitalist gal”- never knew that! Don’t really get the whole- bedroom/feelings thing.

One thought- do we want Pumapac to be an inclusive group dedicated to fighting for female equality, media accountability, fair elections…………….. or is this Murphy’s blog?
Maybe it’s time to give control to a board of directors and take it out of one person’s hands.
The problem with this being”one person’s blog” is they can act like a dictator while
everyone else must tiptoe around them, and avoid offending them. Let’s see some democracy on this Pumapac website.
If this is not THE pumapac website- then one needs to developed. That was the function I donated my money to.

Thoughtful post. Funny, over the last several weeks I’ve been speaking with other folks on several blogs about the need to find common ground in order to be politically effective. So many of us cling to the issues that divide and in doing so render ourselves impotent. Obama has found ways to make people feel part of something bigger than themselves; he will be able to play these folks like a lute. Thanks.

FROM THE INSIDE

I wound not be so fast to diss Hillary Clinton for her official position on the photo. It is obviously the height of disrespect. What I would do in her position is to say, “Oh, the Boys are having fun again!”, get them severly repremanded, and fired six month’s later. That is how these things are done. The system she is operating in does not allow for admissions of guilt or ammends.

Then again, they may continue to work for BO as more of his pet pigs. I think they are perfect for him and it sure does put a different “spin” of BO’s “slip” about pigs and lipstick.

Murphy or DWP PLEASE ERASE #367…. there are more than puma’s here…. PLEASE?

Oops, didn’t close the link. Try this:
_______
Female biologist discovers that brains (g) and general health (f) depend on daddy’s sperm quality, and vice versa. Smoking, diet, age, etc., are all irrelevant.
On average, of course, which is the scale on which evolution (including sexual selection, which is the likely culprit here) operates.

Great post, Murphy. I get it!!! PEOPLE United Mean Action = PUMA. Only thought is that I see a lot of misandry here. To be fair..not all men are misogynists. If we are to be a truly “inclusive” group EVERYONE should be included, n’est pas? I happen to be a Lesbian, but I have never allowed my orientation, gender, looks, economic strata etc. keep me from being empowered (that comes from within my PERSONhood,my soul/spirit). I was taught independence at an early age from very loving parents. I suppose I am fortunate in that respect as I listen to other’s life stories. I lived all over the world when growing up and came to also apppreciate different cultures and ways of life. So for the purpose of UNITING around an injustices in our democracy, I can accept
Republicans, men, Independents, and women of all orientations.
I never thought this was an all women group….am I wrong??

William Ayers speaks:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/06/opinion/06ayers.html?_r=1

didnt he say he didnt know obama?
then he said tehy were familiy friends or some such…
now he doesnt but would like ot know him better?

zephyr 12.06.08 at 9:56 am

What Zephyr just said. I think we can win people to our cause by being open while at the same time standing firm and not allowing our mission to be diluted by all of the competing ideas in our coalition!!!

(((Karen)))

I read your site and your posts above.

And, now, you are taking care of the person who was cruel to you. Considering who she is, that is love, IMO.

#430 RE MALE SPERM
Brian
That is something I learned when I was trying to get pregnant and everybody said,”It’s your age,” ” It’s your job,” etc. I had been pregnant 2x before. The doctor said- “Hey, it’s probably your (new) husband. You’re ok!” The woman is often assumed to be “barren” without even testing her man.

Oh, and by the way, good morning Pumas and have a great weekend!

#437
Bingo!

Oops, Headklunker…sorry..

The Hillary admonition was aimed not at you at all, but to all in general.

Theres plenty of time to get after Hillary about policy…nevermind dissing her relevance.

Zephyr, we need not seek out any man. If they feel as we do, they will seek us out, with no strings attached. There will be complete understanding. There will be no criticism of feelings because they truly understand.

If they cannot understand, or they have no empathy for the difficulties women face on a multitude of levels, I have no use for them in the cause of this movement. They will do nothing but hold us back.

correction: Do you seriously believe….

taggles1 12.06.08 at 10:44 am #437

PERFECTLY STATED.!!
(makes me want to bookmark that post I KNOW I will want to repost it at later when the need again arises)

Hi,

Not to change the subject, but I am outraged by an article I read written by Bill Ayers in the NY Times, dated yesterday.

An email from Daily Beast had a link to the NY Times (I know longer find that paper relevant or truthful) OpEd from Bill Ayers. Interested, I read it. It is full of lies and downplays his role in the Weatherman and Underground. Also he downplays his relationship with Obama. Even Mayor Daley said they were friends.

What really got me was the Times wouldn’t print McCain’s OpEd this summer and rejected it. But, an unrepentant terrorist against our country gets printed.

Also, I clicked on the 247 comments to read them and the Times only printed the “Editor’s Choice.” Eight comments, EIGHT, out of 247. Oh, and no more comments are being posted. Nice.

I’m not posting the link, because the article is a waste of your time.

I just had to let you know about one more injustice of which there are many.

Zephyr, I hear a lot of men defensively say,

I am not a sexist.

Does that make then NOT sexist, no.

I hear a lot of men say I love women.

Does that make them NOT sexist, no.

I hear a lot of men say I respect women.

Does that make them NOT sexist, no.

It all sounds so cliche and defensive. If one has to be defensive about it, they truly do not understand.

Are there some out there? I guess so. Can I point to a group, or association, NO. I don’t know if any man can truly grasp the pervasiveness of sexism. Do they believe they are not sexist, YES.

zephyr,
I know feminist men exist. I also know none I have met have been as invested in the rights and status of women as women are. Understandable, I guess, or just typical.
The most common experence I have is men being outraged when sexism / misogyny hits close to “home”, their concern and awareness seems to be norn of ego-extension more than anything else. I guess it’s just another territotial thing of theirs.

Either way, I’ve exceeded my ‘discussing men’ quota for the day.

GREAT IDEA!! When doing your Christmas cards this year, take one card and send it to this address. If we pass this on and everyone sends one card, think of how many cards these wonderful soldiers, who have sacrificed so much, would get.

When you are making out your Christmas card list this year, please include the following:

TO: A Recovering American Soldier
c/o Walter Reed Army Medical Center
6900 Georgia Avenue,NW
Washington,D. C. 20307-5001

If you approve, please pass it on.

taggles1 The exact same thing can be said of racism, and I think we all got tired of hearing that one in the last six months. I do not think blanket stereotyping ANYONE is a good idea. There are men who do get it. There are men who want to get it and are teachable. My husband grew up with mostly women around him, and he is EXTREMELY respectful of women (got teased for it by the guys about it, but that didn’t sway him). We’re raising our son the same way, and even in kindergarten, the girls flock to him and around him. He is sensitive, kind, and respectful of them because I do not tolerate misconduct toward his sisters or to me (and believe me, he has tried… not because we are women but because we are here with him, and he’s got to test those limits somewhere).

My husband employed a Hispanic man who is a good friend of my family’s for awhile. My husband never considered himself a racist. He works in construction and works around all races all the time with no issues. But this worker would carry on conversations in Spanish with other workers in my husband’s presence–making jokes and laughing. It bothered hubby to no end. The worker would tell my husband that it was “okay” for him to make racial comments about and to other workers but it was never okay for hubby to say anything that might even be construed as racial to anyone because he was white. It got to the point that I was ready for this young man, who I had always thought the world of (and still do) to leave the job because it was so hard on hubby being called racist every day–to the point he started getting really angry. The worker finally did on his own accord, and things evened out.

I don’t think you can judge a whole group of anyones by the actions of one. Nor do I think you can judge one by the actions of a group. We are each individuals, with our own individual stories, hurts, skelatons, and fears. Painting everyone with one brush is unfair, and in doing so, you are doing exactly what you’re accusing them of doing.

Just something to think about.

leave it to Campbell Brown to find a way to blame Hillary for the Favreau fiasco
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/adding-injury-to-injury/

KarenWI
If you can find it, a really great book is “Fat is a Feminist Issue”
Great book. I can’t remember the author, Suze something I think. I’ll find my copy later and let you know. It may be out of print but it dates from about 1978, maybe earlier.

Dances
I am watching you

edit:

If they are truly feminist, they understand that they need to stand with us and against misogynistic men and NOT demand that women keep silence.

MamaPuma 12.06.08 at 12:49 pm
Dances
I am watching you
———————
Mama, Good morning.

Fat is a feminist issue: The anti-diet guide to permanent weight loss (Unknown Binding)
by Susie Orbach (Author)

There are two ways to proceed against sexism.

1. Really nuke the worst, deliberate cases: Campbell Brown, Olberman, etc

2. Do a politically correct heresy hunt on every accidental gaffe from people who are basically on the right side: Rendell, Summers, etc.
.

My break was shorter than expected.

TDO, are you in the right place? You think women run pc “heresy” hunts?

The only pc hunt I see is people trying to make women be something they want them to be.

Just dropping in again and I have surly missed the fine points of the argument, but who cares if men are sexist. In general I find the same percentage of women just as lacking as I find some men. You have a short time on this planet in this life. So pick people who energize you to draw around you. It is not your purpose in life to convert everyone here to an acceptable frame of mind and behavior and then build some utopia where ugly doesn’t exist. I appreciate the men around me for what they are. Strong physically, some I find sexy, most are helpful or I wouldn’t tolerate their presence and some I share work, volunteer, entertainment or hobby interests with. I know a couple of former men who switched teams and are now calling themselves women, they don’t have super high male hormones any more and take female hormones. I still notice the constant maleness in their personalities even though you would think they would no longer have testosterone poisoning. Look we might as well get used to them because they aren’t going anywhere.

What needs to be changed is the institutions which men made without consulting us because there have become corrupt. That would be political, religious, media, even Universities and professional schools. I would take on media first. It will be the easiest because the current set up doesn’t serve women well. Simply encourage women everywhere to stop subscribing to Cable TV, you could convince most women to save money by downloading only the shows they really want to watch. This will paralyze Media. You don’t have to declare war, quietly carry it out. At the same time offer web sites with content that appeals to females of all ages. I am serious, go after media. Cripple them.

Morning all Pumas: Wow this thread took alot of time to absorb. Murphy your article is excellent and I so grateful to see a space in which people can be passionate, disagree and grow. Dances as always you inspire.
I am so exhausted by the lack of heart and intelligence I am experiencing right now in my day to day life with my dem obamite friends. It has sent me into a spin of seriously questioning what is going on within myself. Why did I not see this coming in my choices of friends? My god, I’ve known most of them for 30 years now…has my sister lost her mind too or have I lost mine? What are they seeing that makes them so happy …..that makes me feel like I must fight for my life…that I feel danger is seriously afoot and has been for sometime now.
I havent heard anything remotely cogent about Obama…I am thinking that practising keeping my own company for awhile til this becomes more defined (for people) might be in my best interest.
I can’t thank each an everyone of you enough for your insight.
For you passion~~~~you make me feel there is hope…

Personally I have for a long time thought that violence is what is missing from the womans movement. Particularly since in most case we are dealing with men and man made institutions and men understand violence on a primal level. What is needed is a group of thrill seeking women of all ages to quietly carry out some hits on a few raging sexist pigs. Because frankly until certain men fear displaying misogyny it won’t stop.

Ronan “What are they seeing that makes them so happy …..that makes me feel like I must fight for my life…that I feel danger is seriously afoot and has been for sometime now.”

My sentiments exactly. And to top it off, just he other day one of my long time “friends” (don’t know how to put a strike through that like Murphy does)rather, aquaintances insinuated that I was a racist…geez. I actually had to write and tell her that she had no clue who I was…how I spent my life treating EVERYONE equally in my career AND now choose to live in a community that is 85% AA’s. Sometimes, other than here, I feel like I’m living in an alternate universe.

Griffin 12.06.08 at 2:13 pm
====================

Where did the phrase “good natured fun” come from?

The only quote I’ve seen from the Hillary camp was perfect, something about the kid making an application to the State Department. It in effect called him an idiot and invoked realitly: that with his poor judgement he won’t get far in government. And did it really come from Hillary, or was it just one of her staff people popping off?

Really, using this as a way to make Hillary look bad is … just bad.

Ok I tried to post a comment on the CNN article. Again I am “in moderation” Free thinking is considered a threat or distasteful at CNN. But here is my comment.

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Ummm, welcome to 2008 Jon Favreau. My 6th grader understands the “perils of Facebook”. Is this guy supposed to be bright and upcoming? Because he looks like a moron.

And I gotta go now; real life beckons.

Seattlegirl 12.06.08 at 2:00 pm You make some of the most sense, I’ve heard on this subject,neighbor. You wouldn’t happen to be from Seattle, would you? LOL I know that Seattle has it’s good and it’s bad, but it’s always seemed like the most proactive of any I’ve been to. It just seems to be so expensive to live there. Maybe, that’s one reason why.

This week at work I had an instance of sexism directed at me.

I said nothing, i did nothing about it.

I felt ashamed. but mostly I felt imprisoned by it all. I had to swallow it so I could do something good for myself and my family.

If I had spoken up, I wouldn’t be able to do what I do. I wouldn’t be able to make a living. I wouldn’t be able to help my family.

Am I a disgusting woman?

What should have I done? I do feel I compromised my principles.

Then I ask myself why am I beating myself up over this. I am the victim.

How do I make myself not be the victim when I have so little power to overcome it?

taggles1….that’s a difficult course to navigate. If you only had yourself to think about you may have spoken up and then suffered the consequences. You are right not to beat yourself up…you were looking out for the “greater good”.
Just keep telling yourself that you ARE powerful…because you ARE….and let it go. One day, some way…the laws of karma dictate that the sexist rat will have his due.

Secrets of addressing direct sexism would be answered by a war horse of the 60’s.They know whats to be done. But it will never be posted on this board..and one of the best reasons their participation in PUMA should be encouraged not discouraged. You can Learn something from the elders.

TOD, Why should I have to look for a better job. I love my job. I love what I do.

I have never worked someplace where I haven’t witnessed or been a victim of sexism.

I don’t have the means to work for myself at this time. But that is probably the answer.

LOL Pookie ty for the laugh

Griffin:
I still like Hillary…but I think your point and post absolutely valid and excellent. I couldnt agree more.

Pookie 12.06.08 at 2:37 pm Thanks, Pookie. That is so perfect I had to save it.

Taggles~~~For alot of years I worked in forestry in the mountains. I remember feeling exactly the same way~~~whenvever it rained.

HILLSTHEONE 376
Are you here? How will Aquarius do in the full moon phase? I’m about to explode already.

HILLSTHEONE 376

How about Sagittarians? LOL

Another thing missing from the womans movement is obviously our history but also our own inspiring mythology. All we have is the Catwoman type of male approved character prancing around in her S&M lingerie and high heels and striking sexualized poses. Actually I think Catwoamn came from straight men developing a character and sending her to gay men to costume. WE need and deserve our own mythology, That is something very powerful that women with fiction writing skills can now do because before you had to get your creation past a group of male publishers, now you can set up a web site offer the first two chapters for free and let people buy your book directly and to hell with male approval. Actually that would be a good commercial web site, set it up with a female jury (or not) let women post an excerpt of their writing and then arrange the shipment of self published books or even the downloading of a digital book onto an I-pod.

496
taggles1 12.06.08 at 2:39 pm

This week at work I had an instance of sexism directed at me.

I said nothing, i did nothing about it.

I felt ashamed. but mostly I felt imprisoned by it all. I had to swallow it so I could do something good for myself and my family.
***************************

It is too bad that you did not state what that instant of sexism was. And was it directed at you when you were alone or did the pig do the dirty deed infront of his peers or was it a mixed group?
It only matters at what environment it was perpetrated, because pay back always has to come back in the same environment, in subtle yet effective forms.
So, let us know what exactly happened and then your Pumas friends, males and females will assist you, in your dilemma, whether to let it pass, or pounce.

Pumas Unleashed 12.06.08 at 3:06 pm
TDO..
I wrote this at Not Your Sweetie:
my opinion of Campbell Brown:

“Campbell is a dolt. In both videos she is reading from a script written by, you guessed it, a man.
She is a news whore carrying water for the Obama camp. The Favreau insult was a setup for a print worthy “reaction” from Hillary.
She busted them and rightly so, by passing it off as HS delinquent who doesn’t take his job seriously enough to work for a US President… Favreau just blew his WH ticket and mayhap his career”.

=====================

GREAT! But Sweetie is the choir — now post it out where the rest of the world can read it, at WP and CNN links above.

Those links are now up at http://pumaresponders.blogspot.com/ for your posting convenience.

indy 12.06.08 at 3:14 pm
Hillary told Obama she wanted complete control to pick the State Dept. staff. We’ll soon see how much control she has when we see whether or not she hires Favreau.
===========================

He’s not really applying for State. That was sarcasm.

#416 Terry Do Too bad you didn’t speak up. As I said yesterday about Murphy’s post, no way, no how it pertains to me. I have had sexism directed at me all of my life and spoke out against it immediately. I can recall when I was in my 30’s, I was in a bar and this guy was sitting at the bar with his stool turned around to look at the show, grabbed me toward him and then unzipped his pants and showed me his dick. I calmly looked at it and said “its undoubtedly the smallest I’ve ever seen!” Of course, I humiliated him front of all those people. I don’t let this stuff get to me and I never felt ashamed because I usually put them in their place.

If that Daily Puma link isn’t workable
try this:

Daily Puma

or this:

http://dailypuma.blogspot.com/

ladyhawkke 12.06.08 at 3:26 pm

#416 Terry Do Too bad you didn’t speak up. As I said yesterday about Murphy’s post, no way, no how it pertains to me.
***********************

Ladyhawkke
If you are referring to my post #516, I was answering taggle #496 post 12.06.08 at 2:39 pm

But in answer to you post, you had a good answer and a little song such as “Is that all there is?”
We have to teach younger girls not to be intimidated or embarassed by a penis and I guess the best way is to show younger girls pictures of the male appendage. So they can also say (is that all there is?)

Well, if Hillary thinks that the picture represents boys having fun, I’d like to see girls having fun with Obama’s picture and doing the same thing. Ahh, then they would be called, you got it – “racist.”

Is Murphy alright? Does anyone know?

BRIAN H 429-30
We have friends who had a Down’s Syndrome child 30 or so years ago, and they were told at the time that the father’s sperm could be part of the problem, in that older couples had less frequent sex and that the sperm would not be fresh. I’ve never heard anything since on that possibility.

I was groggy watching CNN … they were going to talk about Jon Favreau and the life size cut out of Hillary Clinton. I am glad to see that the media is picking it up and shaming these morons. I hope they get strung up and spit on. Sorry, just saying how I feel about adults that don’t know decency.

530
Ronan 12.06.08 at 3:55 pm

Is Murphy alright? Does anyone know?

***************

Ronan

Murphy is probably having a great family day.

That question reminded me of myself when I was a kid, no matter what time I came into the house, I expected my mother to be home.
The house always seemed empty without her and her warmth.
And that is what PumaPac feels without Murphy commenting every once in awhile…

Ex-DemInVA 12.06.08 at 3:45 pm
Well, if Hillary thinks that the picture represents boys having fun, I’d like to see girls having fun with Obama’s picture and doing the same thing. Ahh, then they would be called, you got it – “racist.”
******
Personally, I think the above idea would bring home the message. That you should not do what you don’t want done unto you or your chosen political figure. I don’t see why we should give Obama’s followers licence to do vile stuff while we stand around shaking our heads in slow motion disbelief.

TDO:

I didn’t log on to Wapo… but you are welcome to post my post over there, if you want to..

Mountain song, RE Full Moon next week
Beware the last part – PEBO baloney
http://www.astrowisdom.com/thisfullmoon.htm

I didn’t log on to Wapo… but you are welcome to post my post over there, if you want to..

————————————–
I did go and post not yours but 2 by tycoon…….
————————————————
Karen a kind word from me to you. Love.
May the luck of all the world shine on you and your Mom.

HP Boston…. I appreciate that- thanks!

Fat is a feminist issue: The anti-diet guide to permanent weight loss by Susie Orbach (Author)

Thanks DWP- do you know if it’s still in print or not?

You missed the story of my life (or part of it) TT… nothing important, LOL….

I wonder what would have happened in the media if Hillary had used the incident to take a stand or make a statment about sexism?

Why doesn’t the media do the right thing?

It is just one more instance of them throwing the game for Obama.

Why do we blame the woman in this. She a bigger target for outrage than Favreau. Somethings wrong……

You got that right! Died awhile a go……all we say and do falls on deaf ears.
Seattlegirl has a good IDEA!
I guess we will have to start throwing ourselves off bridges and out of windows to get their attention!
Naw it would please them! Lets just pile on THEM!

That was my idea not Seatlegirls…..
She is advocating all women cancel cable, kill the media, I agree.

vadaryl 12.06.08 at 12:29 pm

I got an idea. Obama is going to be on Meet the Press tomorrow. We need to get Tom B to ask Obama why he has not released his grades, medical records.
…//
=========
One of the things people haven’t much considered about medical record and school transcripts etc. is that they often contain information about the person’s citizenship, origins, etc. So if BO wants to continue the absolute blackout on his NBC status, he needs to keep those other records in the dark, too, no matter how innocuous they might be.

On a personal note, I bitched out some cranky racist, sexist old man in the middle of the store in front of many customers. I put my notice in the next day. I was sick of that job. I took responsibility that I am an artist. And besides that it felt really good to watch all those women smiling aloud in that store that day.