Proposition 8

Obama campaign workers angry over unpaid wages
November 6, 2008 — budsimmons
Obama campaign workers angry over unpaid wages

Posted: Nov 5, 2008 01:38 PM MST

Updated: Nov 5, 2008 09:03 PM MST

Jeremy Brilliant/Eyewitness News

Indianapolis – Lines were long and tempers flared Wednesday not to vote but to get paid for canvassing for Barack Obama. Several hundred people are still waiting to get their pay for last-minute campaigning. Police were called to the Obama campaign office on North Meridian Street downtown to control the crowd.

The line was long and the crowd was angry at times.

“I want my money today! It’s my money. I want it right now!” yelled one former campaign worker.

A former spokesman for the Obama campaign said 375 people were hired as part of the Vote Corps program and said people signed up to work three-hour shifts at a time. Three hours of canvassing got workers a $30 pre-paid Visa card.

The workers showed up to get their cards Wednesday morning at 10:00 am.

“There was a note on the door saying 1:00 pm and then at 1:20 pm everybody was like why is nobody here. They just got here and they’re trying to get it organized,” said Heather Richards, a former campaign worker.

The large gathering of around 375 people prompted police to call in extra officers and set up temporary barricades. The barricades helped keep the crowd from spilling out onto Meridian Street. Police say the several hundred people in line were for the most part orderly.

“No arrests. Some of the people were upset at first because the line wasn’t moving as fast as they thought it should. But we really haven’t had any problems,” said Major Darryl Pierce, Metro Police.

Eventually people did start getting paid, but some said they were missing hours and told to fill in paperwork making their claim and that eventually they would get a check in the mail.

“Still that’s not right. I’m disappointed. I’m glad for the president, but I’m disappointed in this system,” said Diane Jefferson, temporary campaign worker.

“It should have been $480. It’s $230,” said Imani Sankofa.

“They gave us $10 an hour. So we added it. I added up all the hours so it was supposed to be at least $120. All I get is $90,” said Charles Martin.

“I worked nine hours a day for 4 days and got paid half of what I should have earned,” said Randall Waldon.

Some people weren’t satisfied with filling out a claim form for money they felt was still due to them.

“They say that they gonna call you or they going to mail it to you, but I don’t know. We’ll see what happens,” said Antron Grose.

“Talking about they’ll mail it to us. I ain’t worried about that, man. They’re not going to mail nothin’,” said Martin.

If anyone thinks he will give them that pie in the sky, even if it’s our piece, they are fooled by the Great Pretender.

How do you report a threat on you tube I went to watch the video Pookie posted about Bill Burton and there was one IMO.

RE: CONTACTING GOVERNOR PALIN

Her web site makes it very explicite that they do not want people contacting her via e-mail, phone or fax for anything related to the election. Anyway, snail mail is more powerful if that weren’t the case.

RE: OBAMA’S PROMISING THE CANDY STORE – GOOD NEWS AND BAD NEWS

Seems that after promising the universe to those who would support him during the election, Obama and Co. are no warning Americans that the changes they promised won’t be easy and won’t happen overnight. Bad news for his supporters. Good news for the rest of us! Read below:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/06/us/politics/06expect.html?partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss

RE: ELECTION REFORM

Someone posted on the blog yesterday the name of an org that’s been working on election reform for a long time, while noting the sensibility of collaborating with orgs out there that may already be working on common goals. I’m interested in the issue of election reform and was wondering if anyone knows the name of the org that’s most prominently been working on it. If so, please post with an easy to find heading. Thanks!

RE: MICK

Haven’t had time to catch up on posts at all. I hope your dog is doing ok. Thinking about you…

RE: PROP 8 AND OBAMA

Just received an e-mail from a friend who married his partner of many years a couple of months ago. Afer hearing the outcome of Prop 8, I sent them an e-mail saying how sorry I was, etc…. This is the regretably naive response I received back this morning:

“I continue to believe in HOPE…and understand that the journey will be a steep climb. I remain steadfast in my faith and hope that the new President Obama will usher in an era of greater tolerance and equality under the law for all.”

I wrote back and in the gentlest words possible reminded him that Obama has come out against gay marriage.

I suppose he feels Obama’s administration will be less conservative than a Republican administration. But, it’s curious how blind so many Obama supporters are to issues that are particularly near and dear to their hearts.

RUFFO I agree with you wholeheartedly. We are all in this together. Just look at all the blogs against Obama. They all don’t come over here to sign up, everyone is doing their own thing to further our cause.

Murphy,

My heart bleeds for the gays, lesbians and transgenders who SUPPORTED Hillary and NOT BO (note: this group is small by the way).

As far as those that supported BO, karma is a bitch, ain’t it. I was treated like SHIT by the GLBT in Houston Texas and the misogyny and RACISM against me as a white celibate jew was HITLERISTIC. MOST of my friends are gays and lesbians and nonwhites and I RESENT and will NEVER FORGET that women were treated like shit by MOST GLBT groups nationwide. These groups, by the way, also supported BO almost 9 to 1 and I will NEVER FORGET THAT EITHER.

CA was karma coming quick and fast. Do NOT look to me for support because you will not find me fighting for you–I NOW only support those who did NOT support BO.

WE WILL NEVER BE FREE until we stand together…age old lesson never learned. This year of ANY YEAR of my life I have learned that women get left in the garbage dump over and over so from now on my fight is ONLY FOR WOMEN (and good men). DO YOU HERE ME???

scatch that post. Lost my train of thought. LOL!

REPOST FROM DOWNSTAIRS

Murphy

Can we write to Hillary and tell her that we still need her working hard for us?

Do you have any contact info for her?
I think it would be good to tell her that we are there for her and still really want her as president.

BTW, Im still keeping my Hillary signs

Jennifer,

So I take it you would be into helping create a WOMEN’s FORUM for WOMEN’s RIGHTS?

Let’s get it out there that we are a force to be reckoned with and we are huge in numbers. I was suggesting we have one site to sign up on so they realize our numbers and we can lobby for equal treatment.
We could post issues related to women only and who we want to support for offices and send our contributions to so we can get proper representation in government!

hi murphy

I am a guy and sticking with this site until we get revenge next election. anyone but obama but I still love Hillary.

I still hope obama gets his due inthe form of impeachment. I cannot get over the fact that america is so blind as to have elected a criminal.

mrks

ruffo: You should also check out the New Agenda, if you haven’t already:

http://thenewagenda.net/

tennesseepuma, whats up.

So, apparently we live in the most republican state in the nation and apparently, based on our elected leaders, we are most conservative than we have ever been since reconstruction.

That’s truly amazing.

Jennifer
Also, if we had great numbers and contributions, we could do a newsletter or magazine that would list all the people running country wide in each district so people could have easy access to which women are running and their platforms. We could FINALLY get women on the same page, whatever party affiliation, whatever sexual orientation, whatever lifestyle they choose.
Women FOR women! We outnumber men and minority groups. Let’s get moving on ACTION.

We KNOW women run the world. We just let me think they do. I am making my daughter into a feminist too. Its funny b/c I am a work at home mom, very conservative and religious. I don’t feel that this democratic platform this year spoke to me in principle. They said nice things but they trashed women all over the place and are now trashing gays. It is not right.

I am woman, hear me roar

I see a lot of discussion about pursuing new laws to promote equality, yet, as Murphy so succinctly notes, the Bill of Rights and our Constitution clearly provide for equality. “Equal” means “egual, just as “no” means “no”.

The problem with pursuing legislation is that it surrenders the strongest argument out there – these rights are already guaranteed in our Constitution. All are created equal, and all by virtue of birth have the inalienable rights to life kiberty and the pursuit of happiness.

It certainly may not be as elegant as mounting an expensive campaign to lobby for new legislation, but it is much more effective in terms of protection. With a law, what Congress gives Congress can taketh away. With the Constitution, Congress has no power or authority to act.

In my mind, it is not a complex issue at all. Equality is not an obsure term. And while Obama has lamented the “negative” nature of our Constitution, it is negative only insofar as it negates the power of government, not the rights of we the people.

Now I understand how fundalemtalist groups mail rail agaisnt the notion of rights under the Constitution, arguing that this was a Christian nation. But Constitutional rights are not limited with regard to religious values. There is no language anywhere that imposes a morality test on the grant of those rights. In fact, our founding fathers were very explicit in their intent to keep religion out of government, and vice versa.

Perhaps this is an over simplification of the issue to many people out there, but I it is the simple solutions that often escape notice.

Gotta go pick up the kiddies. BBL

LOVE THE PUMAS
Keep the women’s forum ideas rolling in!

I tried to WARN my GAY FRIENDS, they didn’t want to HEAR IT

especially with ELLEN drinking the kool-aid (which she greatly disappointed me)—————–

as I said two days ago, My heart breaks for them.

PS: Sent my letter out to Palin, LYNN D is next.

I know emotions are still running really high, which is reflected on the blog. But, I hope so much that the core grassroots orgs can find a way to consolidate and organize. Without that, I fear we will remain a highly splintered group with myriad ideas and actions. Without laying a solid foundation, with an organizational structure, plans, priorities, fundraising, etc. we will never become an increasingly powerful, unified voice, but will remain a somewhat fractured group, carrying out prowls and throwing out a zillion ideas. It may feel good and feel empowering, but it may not actually be effective.

We need not be in crisis/reaction mode anymore. Now is the time to build a foundation and work from the ground up. Like activist and other organizations that came before, we must start small, work locally, build a base, build momentum, establish a reputation, establish name recognition. I feel like the mission has taken on an Obama-esque flavor in how grande it has become: Now we’re not just about exposing Obama and ridding the DNC of corruption, but we’re going to transform the media and fight for human rights. Yes, those are all great and important things. But without honing them and defining them in tangible ways in which we plan to tackle them, I have strong doubts we will become a large voice.

I’ve posted this before, but will repost for whatever it’s worth. It’s a brainstorm list of ideas I’ve been working on. There are probably many PUMAs who have businesses, who have run organizations, who have created organizations, etc who could help, provide guidance, etc.

POST ELECTION THOUGHTS

· Don’t continue business as usual. Take this time to reflect, re-evaluate and reorganize.
· Don’t form a new political party. They don’t gain enough strength to become truly viable.
· Leaders of main PUMA orgs meet to discuss consolidation to form a single org.
· Pull in high profile names like Lynette Long, Lynn de Rothschild, etc.
· Create organizational structure/board of directors.
· Create a budget and determine how to meet funding needs.
· Make sure you have key professionals involved (lawyer, accountant, etc)
· Consult with MBA-type if helpful to create a sort of business plan.
· Determine if org will primarily be top-down or bottom-up.
· Determine priorities, goals, timelines and strategies to achieve goals.
· Create committees to do research to support goals, including voter fraud, sexism, down ticket candidates and races, etc.

Some ideas re: goals and strategies:

· Continue to advance women’s rights and fight sexism in the media and in politics.
· Start small and build. Don’t over reach. Focus on local elections, small newspapers.
· Focus on mid-term elections.
· Collaborate with like-minded organizations to increase the size of our voice and sphere of influence.
· Collect contact info for sympathetic journalists and media outlets, broken down into 2 categories: mainstream media and non-mainstream media. These contacts will be crucial in an environment where most of the media cannot be counted on to listen or care.

Clintondemocrat

Didn’t we already know that,at least thats what I always thought.Anyway are you just going to school here or do you actually live here as well?

((((((((((antifish))))))))))))))

Pookie I think we keep missing each other I went to that post of you tube there was what I took as a threat but i do not know to report it.

slyt2: what was the threat? He was talking over Meagan I couldn’t understand everything

(((((((Anna))))))),

Thanks.

#38 Anna7000 – I agree with you.

Somehow, something very profound, that I haven’t identified as yet, has changed in the world. I turned my TV off 2 days before the election and it remains off. The evening of the election, I turned my phones off. Today, i received emails from people who tried to reach me but I can’t bring myself to answer. I haven’t even left my apartment except, briefly to go to the store yesterday and I have no desire to leave it.
I guess I’m feeling like New Orleans Puma~~I need some time and space to regroup, to understand exactly what I’m feeling.
I do feel bad for gays. Everyone should be considered a human being and as such, that love is love no matter the ‘classification.
But at least gays are classed as human beings. People like me (hermaphroditic A New study released yesterday has linked genetics to classic transsexuality. http://www.cosmosma gazine.com/ news/2275/ gene-linked- transsexuality
Just to add, that its NOT genetic probability, but has been proven, all depends on the ratio of the following genes, SRY, WNT4 & DAX1
have a look at those links & abstracts below:

Natasha
Going beyond X and Y
Babies born with mixed sex organs often get immediate surgery. New genetic studies, Eric Vilain says, should force a rethinking about sex assignment and gender identity.
In 1990, while at the University of Cambridge, Peter Goodfellow discovered SRY, a gene on the Y chromosome hailed as the “master switch.” Just one base pair change in this sequence would produce a female instead of a male. And when researchers integrated SRY,into a mouse that was otherwise chromosomally female, an XX foetus developed as a male.

DAX1, on the X chromosome, seems to start up the female pathway while inhibiting testis formation–unless the gene has already been blocked by SRY. With too much DAX1, a person with the XY complement is born a female. Vilain’s group found that another gene, WNT4, operates in a similar way to promote the formation of a female.
http://www.sciam. com/article. cfm?chanID= sa006&%20colID=30&articleID=727D7A18- E7F2-99DF- 306CFA4718A57613

———— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———More From Eric Vilain
The genes: WNT4 &, like DAX1, whose function is to counterbalance the male pathway.
We’re the first ones to show that there were genes involved in brain sexual differentiation, making the brain either male or female, that were active completely independently from hormones. Those were probably our two main contributions.
WNT4 is likely to be such a factor. It’s an ovarian marker now, we know. But if you have an excess of WNT4, too much WNT4 in an XY, you’re going to feminize the XY individual.
http://www.sciam. com/article. cfm?chanID= sa004&articleID=D8BFAF20- E7F2-99DF- 3CBD7BFCF4203F4B

———— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———More From Eric Vilain-2
Eric Vilain discusses the biology and politics of mixed-sex individuals, arguing that terms such as “hermaphrodite” and “intersex” are vague and hurtful.
If you have an excess of WNT4 (an ovarian marker) , too much WNT4 in an XY, you’re going to feminize the XY individual.
We’re the first ones to show that there were genes involved in brain sexual differentiation, making the brain either male or female, that were active completely independently from hormones
http://www.sciam. com/article. cfm?SID=mail&articleID=D8BFAF20- E7F2-99DF- 3CBD7BFCF4203F4B&chanID=sa006

Grizzly 11.06.08 at 3:04 pm

“Gay people are right. When ANY American citizen is denied the FULL benefits of the Bill of Rights then my own freedoms, and those of my family, are in jeopardy.”
————————————————————————–

An injury to one is a injury to all.

This is why.

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

Not only are AA’s against gay marriage, but so are Hispanics. I worked with them and they are anti-gay.
Wonder what Bozo’s constituency would think if they knew he was a closet gay? I personally spoke to Rev. Manning and he told me that and also that Rev. Wright performed gay marriages all the time at Trinity. Take it for what it’s worth, but that’s what he told me. Also confirmed the Larry Sinclair and the Donald Young and other murders at the church. All connectaed in some way to Bozo.

goandersen 11.06.08 at 2:51 pm

Love your posts.

gumbykat
It’s called internalized oppression, violence and sexism against women.
It has keep women “in their place” for decades.

((((mountainsong)))) I feel that you need a hug. I agree with you too, something fundamental has changed in the world and it does not feel in a good way, not at all. I hope that all people will get their rights and be fair, but we will need to stand up together and fight for them together.

hey, antifish, hey goandersen

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((antifish)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

feelin’ love girl?

Billie Jo,

Fox reported that the unusually large African American turnout for BO was responsible for tipping the scale on Proposition 8 because they voted for it by 87%.

mountainsong – i typically don’t like to get involved in highly personal stuff on the blog. but, your recent posts about being hermaphroditic did not go unnoticed. i used to work in peds medicine and am aware that many children are subjected to surgery very young when some doctor makes what appears to be nothing more than an arbitrary choice as to whether the child should now surgically become male or female….only for those children to become adults trapped in a body and raised in a way that goes against who they feel they truly are. anyway, don’t want to ramble on and on, but you have shared things about yourself that are not only part of who you are, but also are things that place you in groups that are very much in the minority in terms of numbers. i can only imagine how challenging life could be trying to manage such things. i don’t presume to know you at all, except through this blog, but one thing about you that surely comes across is you are one incredibly strong person and whether i agree or disagree with what you may say at any given time, i greatly admire that quality.

The video of the Charlie Rose/Meachem of Newsweek interview is wposted for those who were asking about it on the previous thread.

http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2008/11/05/2/a-conversation-with-jon-meacham-evan-thomas

(((((((((((((Dragonfly)))))))))))))!!!

Hey there! I feel better now. All my old Puma friends are here!

I keep coming and lurking,this sadness is just –umm..not abating right now. Maybe in a few days. y’all take care.

goandersen, well I’m good for something once and a while. LOL

(((((((((((mountainsong)))))))))),

You are loved here.

New PUMA website, apologies if someone else has this somewhere, I didn’t see it. Its http://www.dailypuma.com. Lists all new articles daily on all Puma sites. Check it out.

(((((((((((((((mountainsong)))))))))))))

taggles1 11.06.08 at 3:29 pm
goandersen, well I’m good for something once and a while. LOL
——

We are all. LOL!

Sunshinelr – Hang in there. Lucky for you that you feel your feelings. Better than stuffing them down. Come here if you want to be among like minded folks, though sometimes the emotions on the blog might make it harder. Anyway, you know how to find us.

it’s okay ANNA, I just don’t want her to think PUMA is a PITA

It’s been a request to write and thank her many many times from everyone who thought of it and posted upstairs on one of the threads.

OH WELL< damage is done I suppose.

(((((((((((Sunshinelvr))))))))))),

Hey there fellow GA girl!! I know it’s hard to cheer up, but at least we are here in a supportive place. That matters a lot.

michelina – i don’t quite understand your last post. i don’t know if there’s any “damage” done. but i always figure that if i want to maximize the chance of my message actually getting through on a something not directly related to the mission of the political office, then i send my letter snail mail. plus, i always think it’s nice to have a letter to read, to hold, to keep if any elected officials do such things. something printed beautifully on lovely paper, etc. anyway, i haven’t finished my letter yet, as my thoughts are still swirling and know i can write something when i’m more settled.

I am at work so it is hard for me to stay current with the blog. I like the above post because the point is take one groups rights and it means anyone’s rights can be next. However there is a potential to put people off with this because in the past women’s groups were taken over with people who directed the orgs energy to righting the wrong of racism and discrimination against gays while ignoring women’s issues. I think many of us are ready to work only on women’s issues. That is because no one is going to do it for us. Also we have never seen a black group that took on our cause as their own or a gay group that took women’s causes as their own. There are many good women who want to stay focused on women’s issues. After watching the last election and the MSM I think it is clear we have a long way to go.

Dragonfly 91

I think she’ll opt to stay in the Senate. IMO

Thanks Anna7000 7 antifish–it IS good to have like-minded people to talk to. I lost my bestest friend EVER over this stupid election! I don’t know if we will ever get over it. I will NOT apologize for trying to open her eyes and she probably won’t either–so our friendship will never be the same. But I know life will go on. I just have to throw myself into the projects we have going and keep on doing and working!
And reading mountainsong’s comments -(along with everyone else’s, too, of course!) is really quite the comfort!

Antifish- I haven’t taken my Hillary sticker off yet but am considering doing so today.
My dog has been sick so I’ve been in a perpetual meltdown state since Tuesday…especially trying to not show how I feel around jubilant BO supporters.
It really sucks.

Last night, my brief reprieve was attendance at a Jerry Seinfeld concert that made me laugh out loud for an hour and a half. At the Q &A part someone asked him about politics and he refused to discuss it. I was relieved about. He said as a comedian, it was his job. I thought that honorable considering the bullshit from Leno, Letterman etc.

I think Anna7000 is completely on target with her words of “let’s take a step back, and build from the ground up.” For months we have had to be reactive, swinging left, then right, then left again to fight off the nasty beast that became that election cycle.
Now we have to time to be somewhat proactive, build our reputation and brand, and solidify our goals.
I promise to help.

Please don’t give up the opportunity to enjoy each day you have – try to practice acceptance, if not approval, and your heart will be lighter, everyone.
Lorelai

Seattlegirl,

There are many gay people who are Pumas. If you feel that we should concentrate only on women’s rights and not on all human rights injustices, then maybe this isn’t the right place for me.

This was your first glimpse of spreading the votes around….

Oh yes, if your a college kid who goes to school in a swing state, that maybe happened to be a county that was won by bush in the last election…huh hum…

REGISTER TO VOTE THEIR NOT IN YOUR HOME STATE! CLAIM IGNORANCE IF ASKED!!

Organized by facebook and myspace I would bet…

Wow, the proof is coming and I suspect a careful plan to steal votes from states where there was no chance of winning-extreme red or blue- and send them to these critical states was exactly how they won. Taking advantage of loopholes and the youth that would do anything to see Obama win…how sad for the taxpayers.

http://ohiovoter.blogspot.com/2008/10/ohio-registered-voters-816-million.html

Another oddity….The number of voters in the state of OH dropped in this election….

HOW COULD THAT BE SO?????

Election Voters
oh 2004-5625631
oh 2008-5213349

Something is very wrong here

Somebody comment on this and let me know if I’m crazy or not….

I bet you could put a map of the blue states won by Obama and the major universities in the state on top of each other and they would line up perfectly….It is just a guess.

Good Afternoon Pumas…

For those who say their Democratic Party is dead or has changed you are right, it has morphed into The New Social Democratic Party.

The Social Democratic Party (SDP) is a political party in Germany and Britain (and elsewhere) founded in late 19th century; originally Marxist; now advocates the gradual transformation of capitalism into democratic socialism.

That is the new democratic party under the new leader BHO
watch how he will spread capitalism into a socialist art!
But hey could it be that maybe the SDP’s time has come?

mountainsong – where’d you go? i’m going to sign off, but will stick around for a bit longer. you were actively posting, then nothing. you ok?

((((((antifish ))))))11.06.08 at 3:07 pm

(((((ladyhawkke,)))))

You have made me cry and now I can’t stop.
Oh what a rotten world and how I KNOW Religions MADE UP OF MEN BY MEN ARE THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL! A Tool to keep women down and men can gain power and stoke their egos.
This is not man bashing this is a fact of our lives!

Anna7000

Goofsdad and I are okay… still reeling from how the election turned out. Freedommarch goes on and is now working on very similar actions to PUMAPAC.

We’ve contacted Murphy about forming an alliance. Freedommarch has had over 300 + volunteers sign up over yesterday and today so far.

This helps keep our spirits up because people are ready for action now!

taggles1

LOL!

OK, BillieJo, just saw Murphy’s post above. OK, did 70% of any other demographic vote for Prop 8?

antifish 115

“I’ve no doubt that the overwhelming support BO enjoyed from gays all over America helped him get elected.”

Because they were following HRC.

And the beat goes on. As long as we the people keeps trampling on each other, we will never get any where.
I agree anti, selective amnesia, they magically forgot what oppression is all about, or is it just revenge and kool-aid poisoning?

Suggestion on forums–

I too saw the word forum and was expecting threads/nested style like a bulletin board as opposed to add’l blog pages. A threaded forum makes it much easier to organize different topics, keep up with things, and for ppl to focus on spec. areas they are interested in.

This is one site done in that style:
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/

http://www.forummatrix.org/ has some info on several kinds of forum software

BillieJo,
Do you understand what I am saying, AA are not the only ones to blame, they may be a small number compared to other groups.
——————————
You raise good questions. The point for me is the irony.

Thought this was interesting. Went to get my hair done today, and they have NEVER discussed politics there before when I have been there. Today several women and men were talking about how BO is not sworn in yet, and a lot can happen between now and 20 Jan. One even had a conspiracy theory about how Pelosi has this set up so she can become president.

I guess we can get ready for a draft under Obama.

http://thatsmeontheleft.blogspot.com/2008/10/obama-military-service-is-obligation.html

Wednesday, October 22, 2008

Obama: Military Service Is An Obligation

Part I
Was Biden Talking About a Draft?

Part II
National service forum at Columbia University
Obama calls for US military mobilization

antifish 11.06.08 at 3:59 pm

OK, BillieJo, just saw Murphy’s post above. OK, did 70% of any other demographic vote for Prop 8?
——–
Fish, you know I am not defending minorities but I am just saying a high percentage of many nationalities that are Catholic, Jewish, Mormon, Baptist…many religious voters voted for it.
I think that it is more of a religious road block than necessarily a type of nationality. One obot that voted no on 8 just told me a high percentage of her Latino friends that are Catholic voted for the prop.
That is part of the picture for liberals, then there are the Repubs that are stongly for the bill. So lets say the 40% of Repubs that voted for passing prop 8 did vote that way, it wouldn’t take that high of a pecentage of people on the left to make it pass, that divided by the number of actual AAs…..could be pretty small to tip the scales.

Middle age female 11.06.08 at 4:03 pm

Thought this was interesting. Went to get my hair done today, and they have NEVER discussed politics there before when I have been there. Today several women and men were talking about how BO is not sworn in yet, and a lot can happen between now and 20 Jan. One even had a conspiracy theory about how Pelosi has this set up so she can become president.

—————————————-
Mmmm sometimes truth is stranger than fiction and conspiracy theories! I’d take Pelosi over BO any day but hey I did not vote for him so I’m the racist…………in good company here yup judge me by the company I keep.

Joe Scarborough calls out Chris Matthews

http://dancingfromgenesis.wordpress.com/2008/11/06/rahm-emanel-controversy-barack-obamas-accolyte-msnbcs-chris-matthews-says-my-job-is-to-make-barack-h-obamas-presidency-a-success-will-rahm-emanuel-turndown-reject-chief-of-staff-role-positi/

Chris Matthews, in not wanting to discuss this issue, saying “my job is to make this presidency a success,” once again reveals his extreme left wing political bent, and Joe Scarborough called him out on it, saying that their job is to report the news and analyze it, not to be blatant propaganda arms of the Democrat party, and then, Chris bowed his head in shame, and they went to a commercial break; it was a very short appearance for Chris, no doubt cut short by his monumental gaffe.

Seattlegirl 11.06.08 at 3:54 pm

I am only interested in working on issues that would be relevant to all women regardless of their sexual orientation. For me those issues are sexism in the MSM. Images of women in media. The fact that women can not stand for election without being hung in effigy and slandered by their own party. There are already many “women’s groups” who stand up for random injustice in the world and have women as a distant priority.
_______________________________________________________________

SO, where do I sign.. I have sit in business mtgs and been ignored because I am not a man. My opinion has been decried because I am a woman. If you don’t have the correct plumming, you don’t have all the right stuff..

admin
No Billie Jo, sorry to say they are NOT a small number.
—————
I never said Fish, Go or anyone else doesn’t have a right to be pissed, I am just saying it isn’t just the AA’s in Calif that were largely responsible for passing prop 8.
Since I couldn’t find the actual totals I am only talking about what I see in my state, both in N. Cal and S. Calif.
I give up trying to explain…………….

Jenniforhillary

I respectfully disagree. Let me preface by saying I am gay. I too have been treated like pondscum – by repubs, dems, straights, gays, whites, blacks, women, men – you get my drift.

We have found common cause with folks we otherwise have little in common with. Equal rights and equal treatment is the most and the least I expect. I think this thread is about taking a stand for the constitution. It just so happens that Nov 4 chose gays to target in order to draw more folks to the polls.

I am grateful for PUMA support for fairness if today I get treated as trash for being gay, as well as tomorrow if I an treated unfairly because I am a woman.

NO ANNA, it is CONFUSING: The LINKS would serve the purpose and maybe a line or two:

I forgot which thread I was on after awhile:

kat in your hat 11.06.08 at 4:08 pm

Black people are not oppressed people. They have the same legal rights (and more) as everyone else. Gay people don’t.

—————– Here here! That’s right blacks are not oppressed and have been able to vote longer than women even black women. They have been free,voting and citizens for a longer period of time than most early immigrants. ??? oppressed??

ANNA: I’m so adapted to the PUMA PROWL and the HILL RESPONDER MODE, and not very politically correct. I see what your saying,

Just gotta shift gears a little.

antifish: That is really true that some people need a Nemesis to hate or they don’t feel alive. There seems to be a whole set of people who can only feel negative emotions like hate, and persecution and they crave those feelings. I deal with 2 people who are like that daily and I just do not understand them at all.

http//contributors.blogsome.com/2008/11/06/let-all-hop-aboard-the-crazy-train/

This may be a sign that you need medicationposted by: Politicalpyro.com
November 6, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Lets all Hop Aboard The Rev. Manning Crazy Train

I cant think of anything to say here. You got to see all side of an issue to understand… right?

The Underground 2012 Resistance Movement to Obama

Dr. Manning

LOL

Well he never gives up.

admin 11.06.08 at 4:09 pm
yeah kat, i’m starting to realize that.
—————————-
I commend you on your willingness to say that.
——
“Lesbians just get to enjoy the double-extra-special hate.”
Just adding that lesbians get an intesified extra special hate because not only are they saying/living “no” to men, they are saying/living “no” to the peni-centric culture of patriarchy, which is HUGE.

(((((((((((((Lorelai)))))))))))))) Big Puma hug for ya!!

BillieJo 142

I don’t think it was ‘just’ AA’s that voted for prop 8, and I am sure not all of them did just because they may have voted for the Obutt.

Gay people are marginalized, gay women within the gay community are marginalized, there are just as many gay men who hate women, gay or straight.

The marriage issue has become a religious issue, propagated by the Right. There are AA, White, Hispanic, Asian, Muslim, etc. that are of the Right who voted for Prop 8

Those of us on this blog and elsewhere who are gay women know, that we are the least supported, period.

Thanks (((((((((((((((((((((((antifish))))))))))))))))))
I mean it! Thank you!

<— Another lesbian PUMA.

Jenniforhillary

I do agree with you that women are favorite easy targets and that makes women’s issues my favorite easy cause to support. (Sorry am at lunch hour and can’t say as much as I wish. Can’t do this on company computer)

((((((((((((((goofsmom))))))))))))) Thanks you guys….

Hello Everyone!

I may have missed it but Florida Passed Amendment 2 at the same time.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Florida_Marriage_Amendment_(2008)

#165 go,

Would you like some fairy dust on that?

admin 11.06.08 at 4:18 pm

marie #138 — wow wow wow.

nice find, thank you.

Journalism has surely died in the United States.

Hey what about BO’s grandmother
What no funeral
No memorial service.

antifish 176

Ah Choo! No thanks

Palin and Van Susteren prowl done. Along with my email to Valerie Jarrett at the Obama administration to let them know of my displeasure regarding the likely selection of the misogynist Treasury Secretary. You know the guy that thinks females do not have the same aptitude for math and science that males do.

Hi gostrumcat!

I support gay rights. I think what happened to them in the election is unfair. However gay’s have their own groups and women have nothing. Not even NOW would speak up for Hillary or Sarah. What person came out for them? I know there were some, but not enough for our voices to be heard. I just want to focus on women and keep an eye on that one in the White House. I will not forget that it was 2 gay men who had the hanging of Sarah in their yard in Hollywood.

Yes, this was disappointing– and infuriating, but can we stop pretending that this is solely about “Obama and his supporters” as this post suggests? Hillary stopped supporting gay marriage after she threw her hat in the ring for the presidency. Her stance — that it should be left to states to decide and that she would support CIVIL UNIONS (but not gay MARRIAGE) — was one she clearly stated throughout the primary season. See here, although a quick search will yield plenty more examples:
http://www.baywindows.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=blog&sc2=news&sc3=&id=74553
Working to ensure gays and lesbians have the rights they deserve as Americans should be a goal for all of us, but playing the (erroneous) blame game isn’t the way to do it.

Everything is heading in bad directions. Not like it just started, but for the whole campaign! I just can’t even believe anyone wanted this kind of change or the kind that is forthcoming. Truly, the slogan should have been “change for the worse,” because the worst has been brought out in too many people, and the worst results are occurring, already!

Hey PUMAS

The better part of yesterday was spent bawling my eyes out. Had to eventually stop as it’s just too difficult to get the eyeliner and mascara on swollen eyelids……..

It’s time for me to get going again and be proactive. Listening to radio this morning (which is at peril if Pelousy, Schumer and friends get their way reinstating the Fairness Doctrine) where an interview about the National Popular Vote was in progress. “one person, one vote” which rings so true for us is the iniative for mnay states to pass. The popular vote wins the presidential election NOT the electoral. This bill is in legislation in 47 sates right now, some other states have already passed their bill. New York State remained blue Tuesday, likely for this reason as voter turnout was very low. Once the city (NYC) place their votes the balance of the state essentially becomes nul and void. Most people I talked to responded with “Why bother? My vote doesn’t count.” With the Electoral vote, it’s possible they are correct.

Please visit this site. Their goal is to have this passed for all states before the 2012 election. The site also provides an easy link to get in touch with your legislators to support this bill for your state. IMO, it’s one hopeful step to prevent anything more than one term on the president elect to begin with. Get our voices heard when and where we can for fairer elections. (Agreed on what to do with ACORN)

“The National Popular Vote bill would guarantee a majority of the Electoral College to the presidential candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. The bill would reform the Electoral College so that the electoral vote in the Electoral College reflects the choice of the nation’s voters for President of the United States.

http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/index.php

Another gay person here who doesn’t understand the support of BO from the gay community. My partner loves Ellen and watches as often as she can, but I think she sold out and is no better than Oprah.

I keep calling gay issues distraction issues.

Democrats use it to get votes from gays,yet do nothing to for gay issues.

Republicans use it to get votes from gay haters, and do nothing against gays.

JMHO

First off my apologies to any and all hillary supporters I may have offended.
Second I am a gay man and i watched how obama catered his message to his audiance. To every gay person out there I say shame on you if you supported this pathetic media concoction. He played you well and now you are hung out to dry. At least Palin and McCain were direct and honest.

Just a little reminder that there is no Catholic voting block. Catholics are just as independent as any other group. They listen to the sermons and then they go and make up their own minds according to their individual consciences.
For example. Birth control. Remember the very large families, well at least you have heard of them. I am number 9 of 10, although two of them died as infants and I was brought up with my brother and younger sister. Ted Kennedy is number 9 in his family.
Now when you go to Church you would be hard put to find a family of more then 2 or 3. The priest in Brownsville, Texas (a Catalonian from Spain) even said on a Sunday, we can no longer propagate like rabbits. He was witness to the very poor families in the barrios some of which didn’t even have running water.

#70 GBPuma

“As someone who devoted hours to supporting Obama, and hundreds of dollars I really didn’t have, to see him elected, Tuesday night was miraculous. But — I have to say that knowing that so many African American votes helped to put a gay marriage ban on California’s constitution, has taken my joy and turned it to ashes in my mouth.”

~~~~~~~~~~
GB PUMA — you posted the above downstairs and I don’t know if you’re still around to read this — but do you know that I got a flyer in the mail that had a huge picture of Obama and a quote from him saying he is for a marriage between a man and a woman only. The flyer had big letters at the bottom – vote YES on Prop 8.

Please don’t shoot the messenger — I (along with all my family members) voted NO on Prop 8. But I just wanted you to know what a hypocrit Obama is. I also received two robo calls. One from Senator Feinstein saying that Obama wanted us to vote NO on prop 8… and the next day I received another robocall in which Obama said to vote YES on Prop 8. Hmmmm… which side is he truly supporting? Feinstein’s robocall… or his voice robocall?

lilibet…Now when you go to Church you would be hard put to find a family of more then 2 or 3. The priest in Brownsville, Texas (a Catalonian from Spain) even said on a Sunday, we can no longer propagate like rabbits. He was witness to the very poor families in the barrios some of which didn’t even have running water.
—————-
I grew up in Brownsville and I know what he is talking about.

200 lorelai

I’m right there with you. I used to think “good for her, she made her way”, but that gives you no right to rub people’s noses in it.

antifish,

that too! OMG! MO in the White House! I need a double anti!!

Gostrumcat 207 – no kidding –

What I know for Sure – I’m not as rich as Oprah but am alot smarter than she to see through a candiate who is “just words”…..

gumbykat,

Agree. I know quite a few Republicans who are not anti-gay.

Hey EVERYONE-
My husband called today talking about the Obama shirts are now half price on the ndc website (he heard that on the radio) and why not get one and find out where it was made. I said absolutely not but let me see if I could find someone from here that knows someone with one where they could check to see if the are made here in the USA. Anyone know a family member or friend that you could get away with checking the tag to see? He has talked so much about not outsourcing, wonder if he and the dnc have followed through with that regarding their items for sale. May not seem big but it really is if you think about it.

I can’t stop crying…..
I rally, really want to know….
WHAT IS SO WRONG ABOUT BEING A WOMAN?
From my very earliest recollection, I have identified as ‘female’. Now, science has proven I have a female brain.But, as first born and with ambiguous genitalia, I was forced into being raised as a male.
Girls always laughed at me. And boys beat me up on a regular basis 3 or 4 times a WEEK all the time I was growing up, because I LOOKED like a girl in boys clothes.
I tired really hard to make myself ‘conform’. I was married twice. Raised 3 step-children (because of my genetics I have no eggs or sperm and cannot conceive)
Finally, when I couldn’t take the pain anymore, i started living completely as a female.
Most girls encounter ‘male priveledge’ gradually as they mature. For me it was very ‘sudden’. In the space of 24 hours I was transformed into some kind of second-class human being. Later, some classified me as “transsexual” and I became a non-human being.
Finally, I said, “Fuck THAT!!”
First of all I am a human being. Second, I am a woman. Bith have the inherent right to live with dignity and integrity. If I can’t be who I am in this world, then I don’t need or want to be here at all.
The problem is, I got angry.
I am a woman~~to ME!! Until this election season I was a member of NOW and the Feminist Majority for 10 years. Since they both endorsed BO, I withdrew my memberships.
Well, Damnit I can’t stop crying……
I also identify as lesbian. Reading the posts here, I’m seeing just how SCREWED I really am in this world.
(Ok, I am with Seattlegirl. Let’s work for Womens’ Rights.
I am with Antifish and others~~let’s work for gay rights.
My deepest belief is that, if women are less than anything, it is only less than Angels. But not by very much.
Also, I came across this a while ago when I was looking for something else (people like me have the highest suicide rate of any group on earth): Based on very liberal estimates of the transgender population, which would yield a conservative murder rate, transgender historian Candice “Kay” Brown recently calculated that a murder rate of one male-to-female transsexual person each month comes to an average of 119 murders per 100,000 transsexuals, or an average 16 times greater than the national average. This murder rate is more than three times that of African-American men, who have the next highest recorded murder rate.

“And considering that most of it is motivated by transphobia, as evidenced by the brutality of the manner of death [multiple stabbing, beating, choking] we are indeed seeing the brunt of the hate crime in the U.S. as a percentage of our population. – This is a state of emergency,”
Damnit!! Someone please tell me, WHAT IS WRONG WITH BEING WOMAN?
Anyway,I refuse to be a victim. Of all the goups on earth I might belong to, I am most proud and happy being part of this one. Thank you all for keeping me as sane as possible.

#219…meant to say different.

This may be a little off the mark, but I feel the need to relay the story of two friends of mine, George and Charlie. It was 1994and AIDS was still a death sentence and a frightenning enigma for the majority. Charlie become sick. His partner spent two years nursing him. Charlie died and left his substantial estate to his life partner. George had to pay a 50% inheritence tax on charlies assets. They were together through sickness and in health were monogomous and yet were penalized by our tax statutes. The surviving member of a heterosexual union pays zero in taxes.

I am concerned that the Democrats want to reinstitute the Fairness doctrine. This would effectively silence critics of the government. I believe that it will overflow to the internet and we will be silenced. Most of talk radio is conservative and a listener can turn it off if they don’t like their opinions. I do it now by not watching the biased CNN and MSNBC. If we don’t stand up for conservative free speech we will lose it also.
I have seen in the campaign that Obama does not like criticism and has tried to destroy anyone who disagrees. Notice how quickly they are addressing the fairness doctrine. We must be vigilant and protect free speech. It will be difficult for radio and TV to try to balance opinion. This inhibits free speech. What station will want to deal with lawsuits over whether or not equal time was given to the opposing opinion? I think this is a major issue.

Well this is the first chance I’ve had to log on and had to go up 3 flights of stairs to get here. Gosh I missed a lot! Did you guys reorganize and plan out the future of the group while I was gone? I haven’t had the tv on since I heard them declare Oblahblah the winner (except for Hannity and Greta). I just haven’t had the stomach to listen to HIM talking again.

About the group- I, too, would like to stay on but would like to know what the agenda is going to be. As I saw (3 floors down) someome posted about how they wondered what we could accomplish since McCain/Palin talked reform and people just yawned… and it doesn’t seem to matter anymore how dishonest or unqualified the candidate is to people anymore. So, where do we go from here? What are our plans? Is Hillary still in the picture?

Murphy:I am sticking my head out for a little while again from my inner resources retreat to share a few thoughts I have for now regarding the expanision of goals you have so far begun to articulate:
1. The usurped Socialist Democratic Party is now in total control of the government of this country at the national level. Candidate Fraud Obingo is now President elect Fraud Ojngo and, while, there is not a 60 majority , thank God, in the Senate to shut down filibuster, this absolute control will determine our lives for as long as they are not ousted.
Thus, focus on this Party MUST CONTINUE, while one’s purpose may not literally be to reform it from the inside any longer because there is no inside in which outsiders like us and others, certainly, Independents and Republican citizens ANY LONGER have any foothold whatever.

Whereas focus on reform of the Party has been one of the stated purposes of this Pac previously, focus on the INTENDED actions and ACTIONS of this usurped Party, now in total control of the government, must of necessity remain a center focus of this Pac of Citizens…
It seems to me,therefore, that among the functions of this Pac should be, for example, a development of a grassroots interest among citiziens of any party, but initiated by this Pac, on identifying and tracking potential legislation that will be coming up and quickly too which, in and of itself, further leads this country to the path of the implementation of the government owning and controlling everything: our money, our thoughts, our freedoms. This is a common goal among many from different parties. Action groups could be developed among those who have a specific interest in this particular aspect, and actions taken within each state to Congressman and Senators regarding Pac member views. Now these views may vary, but the point is VIGILENCE, WHICH HAS BEEN OUR CORNERSTONE MUST BE CONTINUED IN SPECIFIC WAYS AND ON SPECIFIC MOVES BY CONGRESS. These issues will draw people to join this Pac…SPECIFIC INFORMATION WILL DRAW PEOPLE, jUST AS PEOPLE WERE DRAWN ON THEM WHEN YOU STARTED THIS PAC.

2. We must remain and become even more VIGILANT CITIZENS AND ACTIVE PARTICIPANTS IN GRASSROOTS ACTIONS EITHER INITIATED BY US OR IN CONCERT WITH OTHER GROUPS. …otherwise, I fear this Pac will become more of a talk pac and not as we are and should remain a DO group…And there are gazillions of talkers on the Internet…a babble of them…not as many DOERS.
I have a lot of other thougts but I feel gathered energy waining …so I have to go back to my retreat…
So..am I agreeing with your expansion or not? (Pretend there are 30 seconds left in class and you, who could have been a student of mine (your age and mine)(one of the best ever, from which I learn a lot!) in a little dialogue…and you answer that question? The bell just rang…Love to you and all…Later…I need to get recharged quicker because the Chief is really moving along here at quite a quick row as usual..and happily so!

mountainsong,

“My deepest belief is that, if women are less than anything, it is only less than Angels. But not by very much.”
*********
That’s so beautiful! I know a few exceptions, but only a very few.

((((((((((((((((((mountainsong))))))))))))))
11.06.08 at 4:53 pm

You make me proud to be a woman and a Puma!
Love to you and more men imitate women IMO. B/C we are beautiful inside and out.

http://online.logcabin.org/about/mission.html

http://www.gayrepublicans.org/

These are both gay/lesbian groups that support the GOP.

taggles1 231

Oh, EEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwww!! Gag!

Henry-I agree…that is why I pushed the button for McCain:)

Hey there, good to hear from you too! I have been fighting the fight. Also, had to move and just lost my dear mother.
“There is no death. Only a change of worlds”.
My spirit was bruised by it all, mom and the election, but it will heal. We still have much to do and I hope to pop in from time to time.
Take good care of yourself and your dear family.

One Love

Well another attempt at equal rights failed miserably here in Cali.
We should all thank the democratic party for that. Another aspect to add to their greatest hits list.
I don’t blame republicans for the defeat of prop 8. That is their belief system and they , at least, stuck to it. Where were the democratic leaders on this? Where was the national; leadership? Too busy conning America.
As a independent I recognize that there is only one party left on civil rights issues.
The political/evangelical.
Lucky us.

Michele’s new site.

http://www.hate.gov

Oh ANTI! I’m rolling!

I think marriage should be banned for all citizens and replaced with civil unions.

Thank you, Taggles, for change.gov. First laugh I’ve had since Tuesday.

Going to do errands, Browns on Thursday Night Football you know! See ya!

Please don’t shoot the messenger — I (along with all my family members) voted NO on Prop 8. But I just wanted you to know what a hypocrit Obama is.

Obama formally and officially denounced Proposition 8, and the group that put out the flyer was accused of “dirty tricks” way before the election (for more, read this: http://cbs5.com/politics/gay.marriage.mailer.2.853999.html). PLEASE — it is not useful to spread misinformation — or to participate in propagating disinformation — no matter how much you disagree with a candidate. It helps NONE of us, and it simply isn’t true. These false statements to further divide genuinely make me sad.

Murphy

Let me tell you I own a gay bar and there is no larger a homophobic group than african americans and that is a fact!

Mom just read something to me… forget the actual numbers, but is was something like over 50% of those who voted for Obama expect him to raise taxes. Tell me… WHY did they vote for him? Oh, I know… paying more taxes is being “patriotic”. I don’t think Obama and Biden know what that word means- McCain sure does, he lived it. I’m hearing so many complaints by people now who say they don’t want Obama in… most of them tell me they didn’t vote for him, they voted for McCain or Ron Paul. Little do they know that a vote for Ron Paul was a vote for Obama. I still wonder how many of those votes were legitmate and how many were, like his aunt, illegal alients, dead people, pets, or whatever….

By the way, with the dem leadership not only still there, but strengthened- PLUS Obama- in, we know that ACORN is not only going to continue, it’s going to be getting even MORE of our money, and getting bolder and bolder with their dishonesty.

Yes, Kucinich is… I love that guy.

Sorry I meant to say there wa no misrepresentation in those flyers.

Ooh I am so glad O will be teaching our young people that “sexuality is sacred” and preparing them for “sacred unions.”

Hi everyone,
I miss all my friends on PUMA blog, I’m just getting my head together this week I think.

Just to say I was really shocked to see how the voting against gay marriage went down in a progressive state like California. If there is a political California-gay-based BLOG down there maybe someone can tell us what they are saying about this vote.

I have lots of chores that I have been neglecting, I better go do something. See you pumas later.

KarenWI
I heard today that 28% of conservative voted for the chosen one.
DO the math. We were finished before we started and never knew it. i am going to give my take on what really happened later.

I am not “volunteering” my child for his change indoctrination. I make those decisions not him.

On the flag question… here’s pics of the black liberation flag. Judge for yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-African_flag

did michele wear green shoes I am not aware of? or green stockings, with her black and red dress?

taggles, exactly. Don’t want too much of a mommy and daddy government. These middle school kids who must volunteer 50 hours a week…is the government going to give them the rides to get where they have to go…or will MOM have to, I wonder.

mountainsong \=hugs=
You got mail.

taggles1, …whatever color they were..the red and black coordinated outfits..he a red tie and black suit…she her red and black triangles and one child in black and the other in red….was a definite sign and symbol…which were not lost on this ole revolutionary watching lifelong Democrat:
For those who do not know about the use of these colors in the history of revolutionaries, google..this question,,
Red and Black are the colors of what revolutionaly movements?
Gone now..really.. I guess I sound like the boy (girl) who cried Wolf? ….gone, here, gone….bye!

#258 ProudAmericana2008

You didn’t address the fact that I received a robocall with Obama’s voice quoted as saying he supported a Yes vote on Prop 8. Was that me spreading a rumor or Obama?

Don’t go NOP, I wondered seriously. Sometimes the inflection doesn’t come out right when writing.

Was it here that I saw Obama’s and Hitler’s symbols being very similar? If so does anyone have that picture or link!

taggles1
If the phrasing is correct. You don’t have a choice.

I’m curious about your thoughts on this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDEAYgm0Dv8

CHOICE OF EMANUEL SIGNALS CHANGE IN TACTICS FOR OBAMA:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081106/ap_on_el_pr/obama;_ylt=AiQTaxtldmioGa2_4Ezh0pvLLJ94

286
NewOrleansPuma

Please, don’t go unless you absolutely must. Your presence here always reminds me of Michael’s. And it’s a breath of renewal. I am so emotionally drained right now, I can definitely identify with a worn out dishrag.

TXRepGirl 296

Now that’s just wrong, like everything else associated with Obooboo

mountainsong

Totally off topic of the thread. You and NewOrleansPuma talk about Michael. I’m not Catholic, but you have peaked my interest in St. Michael. Can you tell me more about him off thread. my name at hotmail dot com.

snow
I cashed in everything i had yesterday
my single vote may have meant nothing on Nov 4 or during the primaries but I felt my actions yesterday spoke for me. 20 years of working and investing became sell sell sell yesterday.
If I have no faith in my selected prez i have even less ib an economy led by him. Also want to note that I will e giving zero to charity this year.

goofsmom 11.06.08 at 5:53 pm

I would be glad to, although my beliefs are not based on Catholicism.

Just got back with my student driver daughter nerves shot anyways someone posted on here about voting machines and how they can be hacked into (it was a you tube video anyways did anyone hear see the post and if so were they imply they thought that happened or just talking about it. That is the exact machine we used here in Ohio!!!!!

#271 Dances – I like the way you put it.

We can also look at it this way: when we are offended by misogyny and sexism in the media, or homophobia in the media, or the fear-based approach to anyone considered “different” from what the powers that be call “normal,” we are opposing PATRIARCHY. Fighting patriarchy will be fighting for individual freedoms and liberties for lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transgender and transexuals and hermaphrodites, and for a more flexible definition of “gender” because in patriarchy, there is the powerful male and the submissive female, and heterosexual relationships are mandated.

My wonderful law professor Meg Baldwin first inspired me to think about this, and since then I have read almost all of Mary Daly’s books.

MEN
MANY MEN
STRAIGT MEN
GAY MEN
FATHERS
SONS
NEPHEWS
BROTHERS
Said no to obama. this place is beyond wonderful do not destroy it by becoming anti-male

OBAMA is ANTI RIGHTS PERIOD…unless those are the RIGHTS of the GOVERNMENT or SOCIALISTS…he is NOT A DEMOCRAT, that was ONLY his cover to get elected, he is a MARXIST THROUGH AND THROUGH and individual rights do not mean diddly to him, look at the rights of babies born during a late term abortion being shelved to DIE, that is INFANTCIDE, but he calls it fulfillment of the original intention, which was to TERMINATE the pregnancy!

HELLO people, WELCOME to OBAMA…and he is anti LESBIAN, he does not even LIKE women, let alone support them….

MANY are fixing to get a feel for the REAL OBAMA! My mother even said that one stupid woman on the radio today believed that since she makes UNDER 250,000 that she will pay NO TAXES, this is HOW people were hearing him….NO TAXES????

HE claimed he would NOT RAISE TAXES on those, but NO TAXES? WHERE in the HELL did that come from? HIS SUPPORTERS are the most ignorant I have ever been privvy to….

AND atlast, TAXES WILL GO UP, and the threshold will continue to go down…he is a TAX and SPEND politician….that is his platform, BIGGER and MORE government…WONDER how his RAP SUPPORTERS are going to LIKE him making sagging a CRIMINAL OFFENSE?

NO more pants around the ass for them! HA HA HA >>>>>JUST WAIT AMERICA>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your CHANGE is on the way!

mccaindemo i think if he puts any woman in any position it would be his big pit bull McCaskill.

PretJene

Yep, more taxes they are already working on getting a tax increase bill up and passed here in CA.

snowtiger – was waiting for someone to refute my points! so now i can follow up with this:

And then we find ways to feel justified and self righteous in our anger.

henry – I, too, hope the anger won’t morph into something ugly, that includes generalities that lead to broad strokes of the brush that are anti-male, or minimizing to the suffering of millions of black Americans, etc, in some struggle to create a heirarchy of victimhood. I, for one, am not interested in that.

I want to throw my 2 cents in and hope no one takes it the wrong way.

There are no political party’s anymore. There are no true dems and no true repubs. Since ‘O’ was elected our country has been divided into 3 groups. Patriots (Us), Socialists (O and Co), and the uninformed. The uninformed just handed this election to ‘O’ and now we need to start informing people as they all come off the Kool-aid!

ProudAmericana2008

You are right. Legally, if civil union provides all of the same benefits under the law, it is just semantics, though right? To be honest, as a heterosexual feminist (I know, some say that is not possible unless you are a celibate heterosexual feminist, but let’s save that discussion) I am opposed to “marriage” as it is conceived in the Bible – I certainly did not take an oath to obey.

whoops. Help me off the soapbox, someone.

Anna7000 11.06.08 at 6:10 pm

snowtiger – was waiting for someone to refute my points! so now i can follow up with this:

And then we find ways to feel justified and self righteous in our anger.
————————————————————————
Sorry Anna. No self righteousness here.
Anger is, Thats all. Not good not bad it simply is.
Anger is closely allied to passion. It move us to oppose that which makes us angry. It inflames our passion. The only question is which direction doe sit go> Constructive or destructive?
We have a right to be angry and a responsibility to channel that anger into a passionate movement to correct the wrongs so blatantly displayed during this election.

(((Mountainsong)))

Thanks, just got it.

ProudAmericana2008
Mya pologies there . I misinterpreted your post.
And I agree with you. Rights are rights. Not privaleges to be enjoyed by the few.

Audre Lord in Sister Outsider has a great essay on the productive use of anger

Dances: “I’d rather work for women’s rights, with the inclusion of the specific issues/rights of lesbians, than work soley for gay rights.”

That seems to me to be the most effective and sensible approach.

MICHELLE 47
WHAT STATE WAS THAT IN? DID ANYONE REPORT IT?

Hope the repubs get a “special counsel” right away to investigate his past wrongdoings. Would be nice if he could be impeached before he takes the oath of office, but that probably isn’t doable Can always dream though

Anyway… buyers remorse audio from newsweek honchos:
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=214933

Saint Jude hospital is a wonderful charity!
I would urge all to give to such a worthy cause, all monies go directly to the research and care of those beautiful, brave children who have been burdened with the awful disease, cancer…Saint Jude has never charged a family that could not pay and they have never turned any child away!

Anna7000 11.06.08 at 6:18 pm

OFF SUBJECT IDEA

That’s a good point. Earlier today, i forwarded the email from Murphy of 11-5-08. She pretty much delineated our mission and goals in it, but it would have been much easier just to send a link to a site like you envision.

My friend is the one whose letter I posted here a couple days ago. She was trying to console me and saying that now, things can’t get any worse. I answered, OMG, if you only knew how much worse they can get!!!
Anyway, she is open minded and I think will eventually want to join us.

henry: I love men Henry,They are for the most part fine people.

michelle47 11.06.08 at 6:22 pm
Yes, of them all, and there are many worthy, I think that is probably the most so.

The way forward for PUMAs:

We gathered together for one reason. We believed in Hillary and her message.

It started out to be about good government. Then the gender-bashing started and it turned into a campaign for decency.

Now the election is over and we didn’t get Hillary. But we can still get what she stands for if we want it.

Hillary stands for women’s rights and gay rights and much more. She was one of the brave few to support the Constitution and vote against warrantless wiretapping and telecom immunity. She wants health care for all and not just for those of child-bearing age, as we have here in Obama-land. She wants to stop outsourcing military equipment that can be manufactured right here in America by Americans. And the Clintons have always stood for equal rights for African Americans even when it was politically risky for them to do so–it makes me angry to see their courage in the civil rights arena go unacknowledged and even denied.

Pumas don’t get to reform the Democratic Party because the party leader does that. We know how that will turn out. But Pumas can still exercise leadership from the outside. We can’t do everything, but let’s not stop us from doing what we CAN do. That means forming alliances with anyone who is going our direction.

PUMA is best at action–bringing people together and getting things done. I see PUMA at the center of a huge Hillary web of people who are working on different issues. When I went to Denver, I contacted several groups, but which group actually responded, offered me a floor to sleep on, and enabled me to be there? Yup. Puma.

goofsmom 11.06.08 at 6:16 pm

New Orleans Puma can probably give you more of a take on the Biblical and Catholic interpretations.

My only point is, this post, and its call-to-arms for an allied fight against every form of marginalization — against any group — could resonate with many. I just think it’s important to be factual in discussing the barriers that exist.

I absolutely agree and I think that Civil and Equal rights for all could be PUMAs battlecry.

#309 snowtiger007

Thank you for your post in stating that it’s not as simple as Anna7000 would like to believe. You expressed it beautifully. I would like to add that even though Palin has to state her position in alignment with the Rep. base — there’s absolutely no evidence that she would seek legislation against the gay community. Nothing in her record to indicate that. Anna should keep that in mind as well.

http://www.lynettelong.com/

Mountainsong

You have mail!!

Also… does anyone off hand know the email address for Michele Bachmann. As a quick refresher — she is a congresswoman that we need more of. She was a great voice of reason against the bailout bill (both times). Yet when she said to Chris Matthews that she felt Obama was unAmerican in many of his views — Chris Matthews with the help of Pelosi contributed huge amounts of money to the campaign of her opponent. She survived and was re-elected by a 4 or 5% margin I believe. I would like to send her an email of support and let her know that even though I do not live in her district — I was following the results of her race and am very happy that she won another term.

Does anyone have her email handy?

mzebest
T/y mzebest.
I don’t think Anna was saying that Palin would aggressive to the gay community though. Just that she would not be a champion of their rights.
I’m sure Anna will clarify that in a moment.

Dragonfly wrote:
ProudAmericana2008, I think you are right. Studies show that Gen Y or the Millennials have a much lower tolerance for “isms.”

Well, technically, I’m Gen X (although, I’m still considered part of the “youth demographic”) and I feel like I’ve been incredibly lucky to not have been burdened with the prejudices of those who came before (not to suggest that all have accepted them). Every friend I have — all in their early ’20s to early ’30s, and some of them gay — supports gay rights, even if they voted in a way you may not have liked for the presidency. We all donated to anti-Prop 8 efforts. It’s disheartening to see gay rights continue to be viewed as an issue the only affects “The Other” — and to see communities that have traditionally been cast in that role support its continued use for other similarly oppressed groups. Something has to change.

mzebest 11.06.08 at 6:34 pm

Also… does anyone off hand know the email address for Michele Bachmann. As a quick refresher — she is a congresswoman that we need more of. She was a great voice of reason against the bailout bill (both times). Yet when she said to Chris Matthews that she felt Obama was unAmerican in many of his views — Chris Matthews with the help of Pelosi contributed huge amounts of money to the campaign of her opponent. She survived and was re-elected by a 4 or 5% margin I believe. I would like to send her an email of support and let her know that even though I do not live in her district — I was following the results of her race and am very happy that she won another term.

Does anyone have her email handy?
——————–
I was wondering about her. Thanks for letting us know she won. I also would like to remind anyone who lives in MN about the recount of Al Franken. We need to make sure the votes are counted properly. This was posted on http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/

Atlas readers know the high regard I hold for Senator Norm Coleman. He ran a tight race against that human stain, the demented Al Franken. Frank lost, but like all libtards, refuses to bow out and instead is torturing the electorate.

Coleman needs our help. Please. The Republican Jewish Coalition has sent out this alert. Coleman is a wonderful friend and supporter of Israel (as is Saxby Chambliss – that was a great win for us).

Norm Coleman – Recount Volunteer Opportunities

Senator Coleman needs your help immediately!

I am sure you have heard the news already that Senator Norm Coleman has a very tight lead in his race against Al Franken. Because the race was so close, by state law there must be a recount. Team Coleman is in URGENT need of volunteers to serve at precincts throughout Minnesota to observe the recount process. It’s imperative they locate 150-200 people who can take personal time from their respective jobs and lives and be deployed on behalf of Senator Coleman.

If you live in Minnesota, they need your help! If you live outside of Minnesota and are willing to come to Minnesota to help they also need your help!! The Coleman campaign must work through the recount process successfully and be sure Senator Coleman is properly represented. Deployed representatives can expect proper reimbursement and handling of travel expenses. More details are forthcoming later today.

Team Coleman will also need funding for the recount effort. In addition to all other contributions, individuals will be able to donate $2,300 per person or $5,000 PAC. More to come on this effort.

If you or those you know can take the time to volunteer and be deployed around Minnesota to represent Senator Coleman in this pivotal recount, please contact Tom McGill at 651-434-9735 or by email tmcgill@colemanforsenate.com.

*sigh* Groannnnnnn~~~This is my friendsa response to the election….:

Please don’t worry so much. There’s still not a better country to be in (except maybe some posh European Union one…hahaha). Hillary is going to be in power too. I went to her speech and she rigorously encouraged her supporters to vote for him. I hate to see you upset, and I wanted to present the following….

Please consider this. I am thrilled about this. I am thrilled about how so many young people showed up in droves, finally feeling like they have a stake in politics. Consider this too. I have a beautiful, brilliant African-American student in one of my labs…..if you could have seen her face Ash…she was so happy. So many people in academia are thrilled. I am in NYC because Bush cut science funding for the NIH which shaved my husbands grant (and many other people’s grants) off the list. Obama wants to INCREASE America’s investment in science. That is such a good thing. Horst and I aren’t really getting along right now, but he’s a damn good scientist. Let me describe his research briefly.

Malaria is one of the top killers of children in third world countries. It kills millions of children in sub-saharan Africa and in India every year. There is no vaccine, because it is a protozoan parasite that infects blood. It is carried by Anopheles mosquitoes. Currently, the US is safe from malaria, because the mosquito’s range is inhibited by climate. But the climate is changing, and Anopheles mosquitoes are being seen in wider and wider ranges. DDT was a pretty good agent for vector control, but it harmed so many non-target organisms and disrupted ecosystems and was therefore pretty much banned. Horst studies the way that these insects digest food in their larval stage (when they are fully aquatic). The hope is that vector control of the disease can be established that is very specifically targeted (not harmful to OTHER organisms) because the mechanisms by which the mid-gut of the larval anopheles mosquito become alkaline enough to digest food are unique to this organism. Horst studies the electrophysiology of the larval mosquitoes. Other scientists study the organic chemistry that may be useful to the development of such an agent. If either of these lines of research are closed, they may never intersect. (Horst resubmitted his research proposal, and got his grant…but it was too late, he had already accepted the job here). In Obama’s book that I read, he expressed a real commitment to strengthening science in this country. It gave me hope. I am hopeful that my students won’t step into the same world where indifference toward biology outside of pharmaceutical companies was all that I encountered in job seeking. That the things they are working so hard to learn will matter and benefit humanity and ecosystems.

What I am trying to say is that there are so many hopeful aspects about this situation. People in Africa were crying tears of hope and joy. The world loves us again, like they did during 9/11. Maybe we won’t blow it this time. Maybe, just maybe, it’s a step towards peace.

I love you. I am trying to encourage you, and not diss you. I hate to think of you unhappy….

She is just so naive!

Upstairs all

antifish 11.06.08 at 5:12 pm
Michele’s new site.

http://www.hate.gov
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LOL Thanks for the GIGGLE Anti!!! Mo must have a link to my blog there, since they have stopped by two nights in a row to lay their stinky turds… maybe they are just frustrated because they cannot spew their hate here, so they come by. They quickly turn a comments section into a pig stye… and I laugh since basically the comment section on my blogger site can be considered the outhouse anyway, and they cannot deface what I have to say. They get to see a big beautiful PUMA when they come charging in to spew.

Take the oath to not accept Obama as your president.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKfrW1ob_pU

I’m in moderation
punishment for messing with stuff

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but based on the article and some of the responses, it appears that some in subtle ways are attempting to place the blame for the passing of prop 8 squarely on blacks. Which is interesting given that blacks make up approximately 6 percent of the total population in California, in terms of the electorate, their percentages are even fewer. So this blame game isn’t quite fair. I do wonder if such claims would alienate those Puma members who happen to be black. If I’m following correctly, what seems to be implied here is that gays should not have supported a black man since his black supporters did not support their cause. That idea makes me feel very uncomfortable to be honest.

Well, had Hillary gotten the nomination(or any other democrat for that matter) she would have enjoyed overwhelming black support, therefore gays should not have supported Hillary in such a scenario? Nearly 90 percent of republicans voted in favor of prop 8, the vast majority being white christians, since there are more whites than blacks in California, significant white support proved to be more fatal. So, were gays wrong for supporting the McCain/Palin ticket? Are there no black gays? I find this blame game incredibly unfair. Attempting to pitt groups against one another isn’t wise. I’m not sure, I’ll be able to get back to the board to read further responses, but I will try.

I joined PUMA in June ’08 and congrats to all for all you’ve done! Haven’t posted before because I didn’t know how. However, today I read the blogs and said, ENOUGH, and learned how to comment. And here’s why…
1. What’s with the profanity on this site of late, Murphy? Please let’s keep it clean. ))) Can you imagine how far any one of the candidate’s would get if they spoke a ‘blue streak’? It is such a turn off! You are a candidate, Murphy, for the PUMA movement. And all PUMAS are reps., and therefore, to attract/build the PUMA numbers PUMAS must operate on ‘higher ground’.
2. Prop 8 I’m a registered Dem who voted McCain/Palin and voted YES on keeping marriage between one man and one woman. I’m so thankful it passed. This in no way reflects on CIVIL RIGHTS, for all human beings have RIGHTS whether children, adults, single, married,’partnered’. Most of the leading candidates (including Hillary and Sarah) favored marriage between one man and one woman, and supported CIVIL UNIONS for those of a different inclination So what’s the beef?
3. CONSOLIDATE THE PUMA MOVEMENT: Joe the Plummer has a website http://www.secureourdream.com (heard it on Fox News/Hannity & Colmes yesterday)
and it might be a good idea to contact him, Murphy, and share the vision and get some traction toward 2010 and 2012.
4. PUMA CREDIBILITY/SUCCESS: Build Mega Numbers, money/resources, and media/publicity (how about the Huckabee show, Oprah, cable news, etc.)
5. PUMAS STAY UNITED
Thanks!

well jeepers, creepers. When Ohio voters passed the state ban on gay marriage in 04, black christian support for it was also in the high 80s, as was white christian support.In that year, Bush got like 12 or 15% of the black vote in this crappy state.
I am not fond of any religious people or rabid atheists who seek to impose their views on personal behavior via the force of government or the force of the corporation(s).Or the joint force of both entities.
I can easily see something like Sharia law being attempted, whether it’s promoted by so-called christians, moslems, both or others all working together to usurp the innate/natural rights of all individuals, be we straight, gay or bi.

Well, I don’t want everyone here to yell at me now.

Although I expect them to.

The comments on this blog are absurd.

The Bill of Rights! Civil Rights!

Rubbish.

There is no right to marry.

It is a privlege.

That’s why a license is reqired. And there are requirements to gain that license.

We can not marry our siblings, our parents, our pets, etc. We can not legally have more than one spouse. And, one man can not marry another man – same for women.

Be sorry for the gays, if you wish, but do not pretend that they have ‘rights’.

Sorry if I upset anyone by telling the truth.

But the truth it shall be.

Delle

[Note: this is a correction to my post above i.e. with the proper italiciaztion - SAR]

Delle 11.07.08 at 1:21 pm

The Bill of Rights! Civil Rights!

Rubbish.

There is no right to marry.

It is a privlege.

Acutally, Delle, that’s incorrect. The courts have determined in decision after decision that there is a “compelling interest” for the State promoting, encouraging, etc. marriage (since it contributes to the stability of society).
And according to the equal protection clause of the Constitution, marriage cannot be promoted, encouraged, etc. for one group yet not allowed for another (barring a “compelling interest” to the contrary, the existence of which cannot rationally be argued).

Shinynewthings 11.06.08 at 11:00 pm

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but based on the article and some of the responses, it appears that some in subtle ways are attempting to place the blame for the passing of prop 8 squarely on blacks. Which is interesting given that blacks make up approximately 6 percent of the total population in California, in terms of the electorate, their percentages are even fewer. So this blame game isn’t quite fair. I do wonder if such claims would alienate those Puma members who happen to be black. If I’m following correctly, what seems to be implied here is that gays should not have supported a black man since his black supporters did not support their cause. That idea makes me feel very uncomfortable to be honest.

Well, had Hillary gotten the nomination(or any other democrat for that matter) she would have enjoyed overwhelming black support, therefore gays should not have supported Hillary in such a scenario?

I think the point here (which I thought was clear) was that Obama enabled the passage of Prop. 8 in t ways: 1) by implicitly promoting the notion that homosexuality was a curable disease, he encouraged people of all races, etc, to vote for it, and 2) bringing out a larger percentage of those who believe the same thing that he implied (i.e. AAs) to vote than a white candidate would have, but not imploring them to vote it down in the name of civil rights.
To sum, he could have said civil rights are civil rights, and actually helped to defeat it, (admittedly this would have been at the cost of some votes for himself; however, he certainly had the resources to win CA regardless ) but he decided to take the easy route and reinforce the prejudices of certain people (be they black, white, or what have you), rather than trying to change them, thus aiding its passage. Making a guess with rough numbers, he chose a win in CA by 10 and Prop 8 passage over a win by 5 (or a win by 10 using more resources) and its defeat. Cynical, sad, and the easy way out.